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Thread: Strange Strategy against ASM

  1. #1


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    Strange Strategy against ASM

    Recently I went to the not-so-good casino which I lost money the most against their ASM. This casino has driven off almost all AP and Basic Strategy players. Most ploppies remain playing here don't hit and hope dealer bust. For strange reasons to our AP, this strategy seems working better than index plays and Basic Strategy. Today I came to lose money to investigate after some successful sessions in other casinos.

    I have never seen something like this before. Someone at my table bought in $20,000 and flat bet $1,000 a hand. His strategy is simple. If taking a hit will bust his hand, he will stand 100%. I was thinking he will lost net 20 hands in 30 minutes or less. Guess what, after three hours, his session bankroll stayed the same. There is another good Basic Strategy player who has lost $1,000 finally asked if this is his lucky day. The guy said he always plays this way for the past two years or so. He is either even or win a little. This discovery really hits me hard. Everybody at the table lost more than 60% of our hands while this guy is even at his ridiculous simple/bad? strategy. Is this the end of AP? Did someone find a simple exploit against beast mode ASM? The casino did send a lot of people to watch this guy play. He can talk to them while playing since his strategy is so simple and he is flat betting.

  2. #2


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    So a gambler told you he has a system that works, and you believe him because over the course of the session you watched he didn't lose? O_o

    Should this be moved to the disadvantage forum?

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesonDetroit View Post
    So a gambler told you he has a system that works, and you believe him because over the course of the session you watched he didn't lose? O_o

    Should this be moved to the disadvantage forum?

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
    I am ahead of you. :-)

    And I am asking if other AP has seen this guy play. He said he just played in Florida and Las Vegas.

  4. #4


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    Oh haha, sorry was viewing on my phone app and didn't see which forum I was in apparently. Whoops!

  5. #5


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    Your question is has anyone seen someone play a no bust strategy? I'm going to go with yes, for anyone with significant table time. It's even a standard strategy in Norm's software. Run a sim and see it's negative EV. Your ASM theories are bullshit but at least you started in the right disadvantage place.

  6. #6
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    So you are saying that a no bust strategy is best because the ploppy wins with this strategy. Hitting makes you and the dealer bust more in these "rigged" games? So, the dealer busts more than 50% of the time? It sounds like an easy game to beat.

  7. #7


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    Quote Originally Posted by BJGenius007 View Post
    I have never seen something like this before. Someone at my table bought in $20,000 and flat bet $1,000 a hand. His strategy is simple. If taking a hit will bust his hand, he will stand 100%. I was thinking he will lost net 20 hands in 30 minutes or less. Guess what, after three hours, his session bankroll stayed the same. There is another good Basic Strategy player who has lost $1,000 finally asked if this is his lucky day. The guy said he always plays this way for the past two years or so. He is either even or win a little. This discovery really hits me hard.
    BJGenius007, did you ask yourself WHY would the casino leave the ASM in the beast mode when they could easily take this guys money by having the machine in normal mode? I hope you are not thinking this story helps out your case.

  8. #8


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    Quote Originally Posted by BoSox View Post
    BJGenius007, did you ask yourself WHY would the casino leave the ASM in the beast mode when they could easily take this guys money by having the machine in normal mode? I hope you are not thinking this story helps out your case.
    1. It is because of me. They know I am a counter so they turned on beast mode on my table. Or some casinos turn on beast mode permanently.

    2. Casinos don't know beast mode can be easily beat by no-bust strategy. About this, I saw ploppies use no-bust strategy to beat the casinos in the past. But I have no idea if it is luck. After seeing someone willing to put $20,000 on the line, I have to look at this and give a thought seriously. Need to write simulator on pseudo-random number generator that clump cards and no-bust playing style.

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    I know a critter who is always in beast mode. She's ugly too, inside and out.

  10. #10


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    If I ever encounter a beast mode shuffler (which I am not convinced exist) that does the alleged clumping of nearly-exclusively 10s that also allows for a LL (or similar) sidebet, you better believe I'll be hitting that table hard. I'm guessing casinos wouldn't combine the two though, if they're smart (of course, a debatable point).

    But I think there is enough EV there that if I ever am even slightly suspicious, I'll be backcounting quite a few shoes (by reports here, the high TC is incredibly consistent; shouldn't take long) to try and confirm. Hmm... I wonder if I can simulate this theoretical goldmine. Actually, has anyone here simmed the alleged Beast Mode (if it were to exist) just in general?

  11. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesonDetroit View Post
    If I ever encounter a beast mode shuffler (which I am not convinced exist) that does the alleged clumping of nearly-exclusively 10s that also allows for a LL (or similar) sidebet, you better believe I'll be hitting that table hard. I'm guessing casinos wouldn't combine the two though, if they're smart (of course, a debatable point).

    But I think there is enough EV there that if I ever am even slightly suspicious, I'll be backcounting quite a few shoes (by reports here, the high TC is incredibly consistent; shouldn't take long) to try and confirm. Hmm... I wonder if I can simulate this theoretical goldmine. Actually, has anyone here simmed the alleged Beast Mode (if it were to exist) just in general?
    That is what I thought. If you read my earlier posts, you would know face card clump happened when RC is in negative 10 to negative 25 range. When RC is very positive, I never got paid playing Lucky Lady. That is because face card rich preceding face card clump.

  12. #12


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    If there is a face card rich section of the deck before an even richer face card "clump", then you should be making money and at an advantage going into the solid clump... I thought the alleged beast mode was low-card rich except for one section which was almost exclusively Xs. Which means pushing on all the 20s (from the Xs clump) and playing at a disadvantage the rest. This is how spiderman outlined it in his detailed post supported with collected data. Are you now saying that the composition actually does have a proper advantage high-card-rich section before the main clump? If so, sounds like a great shoe for standard counting to me, screw Lucky Ladies.

    It is starting to sound like, perhaps, you are assuming a table as having been using it after you have a losing session, rather than attributing it to bad luck (especially since it sounds like the composition you just described is happily beatable). Not meaning offense, just trying to be candid with where I'm at here in the interest of honesty.

    Can I ask you what are the specific, scientific steps you take to diagnose a table as using a beast mode shuffler, how much data you collect before making the conclusion, and also outline exactly what the deck composition is when the shuffle is completed? And also, in a PM to me, which casino you think uses it in a pit (and which pit, if it is consistent) with a lucky ladies bet. I'm curious to investigate myself if the location is accessible to me.

    Thanks a bunch, mate.

  13. #13


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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesonDetroit View Post

    Can I ask you what are the specific, scientific steps you take to diagnose a table as using a beast mode shuffler,
    Normally in hand shuffled game, given long enough time, say two hours, I can predict who will outperform at my table, based on their skills. But in beast mode ASM, people who did opposite of Basic Strategy outperform Basic Strategy players, sometimes even outperform counters. Also be alert if most of your good doubles fail, not only you but all other players, say after two hours. For example, you saw clump of five and six with accent card two, you and your tablemates double eleven against dealer upcard five, and all of you got two, five or six. Then dealer easily made his hand. It did not happen just once or twice but all night long. I can't say I will never see this happen in hand shuffled game, but it is super rare. While ASM can easily accomplish it using the sequence and I have seen it regularly. Back to the example, a ploppy who was never taught not to split fives just split the fives, then play like the dealer, hit until making a hand. Then we saw the ploppiy wins due to small card clump.

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