Counter Trap?

[Stevie Wonder]

Well, I did a little scouting trip to about 6 localish stores Tuesday and found all to have similar rules with poor pen. However in my last stop, I found a DD game with 1.25 pen dealt face up. All other games were of the previous poor quality rulesets. While passing by this table I noticed a man sitting on 3rd with about 20k of blackchips betting a 1x5 spread, so it seemed. This was a 25min table. There was 1 PC eyeing him closely. I was sure he was counting so I stood back and watched the next 4 rounds. He wasn't !

He varied his bet sporadically with no method behind the madness. His play, still didn't go by unnoticed. As he continued to win, 1 by 1 suits started coming down. Phones were ringing. As the next one would join they would eye the player, his chip stack, and proceed to converse about the situation as this guy hammered them betting 200-1000 per hand out of pure luck. Soon after the last of the 4th suit arriving, he colored up and immediately left the building. Never cashed in. It was very strange.

My question is whether or not it would be best to avoid this table? It was the only DD game in town dealt face up and deeper pen than all others as well. Do you experts think it is a counter trap, or an exploitable game?

[marriedputter]

Well, I did a little scouting trip to about 6 localish stores Tuesday and found all to have similar rules with poor pen. However in my last stop, I found a DD game with 1.25 pen dealt face up. All other games were of the previous poor quality rulesets. While passing by this table I noticed a man sitting on 3rd with about 20k of blackchips betting a 1x5 spread, so it seemed. This was a 25min table. There was 1 PC eyeing him closely. I was sure he was counting so I stood back and watched the next 4 rounds. He wasn't !

He varied his bet sporadically with no method behind the madness. His play, still didn't go by unnoticed. As he continued to win, 1 by 1 suits started coming down. Phones were ringing. As the next one would join they would eye the player, his chip stack, and proceed to converse about the situation as this guy hammered them betting 200-1000 per hand out of pure luck. Soon after the last of the 4th suit arriving, he colored up and immediately left the building. Never cashed in. It was very strange.

My question is whether or not it would be best to avoid this table? It was the only DD game in town dealt face up and deeper pen than all others as well. Do you experts think it is a counter trap, or an exploitable game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA

[Gronbog]

He may have been up to something other than counting.

[stopgambling]

Maybe he is feeling uncomfortable because of their sweatiness .

[Ryemo]

It depends...

You have to test their limits slowly and see how they react. I know of some joints where you can camp and play DD all day and all night with no issues! I also know plenty other joints that will sweat a medium sized spread on 6D and will throw you out immediately! Each place is different. But here are some tips:

1) What are the table limits? Many times when I see a casino that posts a small table max ($100-$500), then that casino usually turns out to be a sweaty dump. It means they don't want to take any big action, which also means they tend to sweat the games more. But when I see main floor games with a $2,500 max, that tells me they don't sweat the money as much (in many cases, not all).

2) Does this store have a high limit room? From my observations, casinos that don't have high limit rooms tend to sweat the action (even if it's small) more than others. See #1 again.

3) Test out the waters... If you're unsure what tolerance level this joint has, test it out (slowly) for yourself. Start with a small spread and keep widening that spread till you start to feel like the staff is becoming uncomfortable with your play. Then you should exit. Afterwards, take notes on what bet sizes started to trigger scrutiny/heat. Next time you'll know to stay below this threshold.

4) Just because the casino only has one DD game, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a trap. There are some exceptions. I know of one joint about 10 hrs from home (I won't mention names of course) that's so tolerant, you can spread 10:1 or 12:1 on their ONLY 1 main floor DD game all day and all night with zero issues! And I'm not talking about red chipping either. I'm talking about 2x$500 max bets. These rare gems are hard to find, but if you look around and network enough, they're out there.

Additional comment to #4: I also know the exact opposite. I know of some joints with PLENTY of DD games, but they'll throw you out in a heart beat.

5) Is the casino part of a chain? If so, is that chain known for being tolerant/intolerant? I wouldn't put too much emphasis in this category, but I would put it into consideration. I know some casinos that belong to chain and they're very tolerant. On the same token, I know other casinos part of that very same chain that are exactly the opposite. But it's one more thing to consider.

So the moral to this story: It depends...

It's all circumstantial. And if you don't network with anyone that has already done the legwork for that particular store, then you'll need to do it yourself and make that decision for yourself. Just tread lightly in the beginning and see how it pans out. Good luck.

[Stevie Wonder]

That clip was priceless Putter lol. Ryemo, the table limit was 1,000. They did indeed have a high limit room, and there were 4 DD games. This one just stuck out like a sore thumb. Unsure whether it is a chain or not honestly. But, I'll definitely consider giving that table a run. I'm a red chipper and 25min would really test my session BR, so my spread would only be 25-100. I'm just new to the game and have never ran into another AP player nor witnessed any true heat yet, so not sure how fast and hard it comes down on someone who isn't already 86d prior to walking in and enters as a "clean slate" player.

[Jabberwocky]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA

I always say Ahkbar!

[Bigdaddy]

It depends...

You have to test their limits slowly and see how they react. I know of some joints where you can camp and play DD all day and all night with no issues! I also know plenty other joints that will sweat a medium sized spread on 6D and will throw you out immediately! Each place is different. But here are some tips:

1) What are the table limits? Many times when I see a casino that posts a small table max ($100-$500), then that casino usually turns out to be a sweaty dump. It means they don't want to take any big action, which also means they tend to sweat the games more. But when I see main floor games with a $2,500 max, that tells me they don't sweat the money as much (in many cases, not all).

2) Does this store have a high limit room? From my observations, casinos that don't have high limit rooms tend to sweat the action (even if it's small) more than others. See #1 again.

3) Test out the waters... If you're unsure what tolerance level this joint has, test it out (slowly) for yourself. Start with a small spread and keep widening that spread till you start to feel like the staff is becoming uncomfortable with your play. Then you should exit. Afterwards, take notes on what bet sizes started to trigger scrutiny/heat. Next time you'll know to stay below this threshold.

4) Just because the casino only has one DD game, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a trap. There are some exceptions. I know of one joint about 10 hrs from home (I won't mention names of course) that's so tolerant, you can spread 10:1 or 12:1 on their ONLY 1 main floor DD game all day and all night with zero issues! And I'm not talking about red chipping either. I'm talking about 2x$500 max bets. These rare gems are hard to find, but if you look around and network enough, they're out there.

Additional comment to #4: I also know the exact opposite. I know of some joints with PLENTY of DD games, but they'll throw you out in a heart beat.

5) Is the casino part of a chain? If so, is that chain known for being tolerant/intolerant? I wouldn't put too much emphasis in this category, but I would put it into consideration. I know some casinos that belong to chain and they're very tolerant. On the same token, I know other casinos part of that very same chain that are exactly the opposite. But it's one more thing to consider.

So the moral to this story: It depends...

It's all circumstantial. And if you don't network with anyone that has already done the legwork for that particular store, then you'll need to do it yourself and make that decision for yourself. Just tread lightly in the beginning and see how it pans out. Good luck.

Great info - very helpful. Thanks for sharing.

For those that have ears to hear, let them hear...

[Most Interesting Man]

It might not be a counter trap, but you probably wouldn't want to walk in at that time. At least you got a good example of how the pit reacts to that betting level.

[RCJH]

I was sure he was counting so I stood back and watched the next 4 rounds. He wasn't !

Soon after the last of the 4th suit arriving, he colored up and immediately left the building. Never cashed in. It was very strange.

?

A thought... Maybe he was up to something else; maybe he just had a great count. I had the pleasure of watching someone play using a very difficult count, and he just looked like a lucky ploppy.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Three]

A thought... Maybe he was up to something else; maybe he just had a great count. I had the pleasure of watching someone play using a very difficult count, and he just looked like a lucky ploppy.

I have seen that count in action as well. Most people would think he was a lucky idiot instead of a counter.