johnnienolan: Was I trespassed?

[johnnienolan]

I was approached by a Casino employee just as I was on my way out the door. He said "no more blackjack". I was polite as always, but a security guard was there just a few seconds after I was stopped. I did not provide ID, only a fake name. The guard said that if I came back it would be trespassing. I signed nothing, and there didn't seem to be any formal text. I complied with the guards request to stand in a spot for a picture, this was just on the main floor not in any kind of office or back room. They were professional, but obviously following their procedures.

How do I know if I have been legally trespassed? They have my picture(s), no ID, no real name. I have a players card at this place but did not use it this trip.

If this helps, I can say that I was at place 'a', won about 28 units in a short heads-up session, but walked to place 'b' to redeem the checks. They are sister properties. They must have followed me for a good 15 minutes as I visited the mens room as well as a leisurly walk.

I am only in Vegas a couple times a year. My act must be pretty crummy ha!

[AutomaticMonkey]

> I was approached by a Casino employee just as I was on
> my way out the door. He said "no more
> blackjack". I was polite as always, but a
> security guard was there just a few seconds after I
> was stopped. I did not provide ID, only a fake name.
> The guard said that if I came back it would be
> trespassing. I signed nothing, and there didn't seem
> to be any formal text. I complied with the guards
> request to stand in a spot for a picture, this was
> just on the main floor not in any kind of office or
> back room. They were professional, but obviously
> following their procedures.

> How do I know if I have been legally trespassed? They
> have my picture(s), no ID, no real name. I have a
> players card at this place but did not use it this
> trip.

> If this helps, I can say that I was at place 'a', won
> about 28 units in a short heads-up session, but walked
> to place 'b' to redeem the checks. They are sister
> properties. They must have followed me for a good 15
> minutes as I visited the mens room as well as a
> leisurly walk.

> I am only in Vegas a couple times a year. My act must
> be pretty crummy ha!

Yes. Never pose for a photo or comply with casino personnel in any way. They now have a high quality photo of you which is being circulated to other casinos and game protection companies. Consider yourself screwed.

Don't be afraid to be rude and uncooperative with these guys. Any cooperation you give them will be gleefully accepted but never reciprocated. My response to a request to pose for a photo would be to raise my middle finger and say "Photograph this."

[kewljason]

> Yes. Never pose for a photo or comply with casino
> personnel in any way. They now have a high quality
> photo of you which is being circulated to other
> casinos and game protection companies. Consider
> yourself screwed.

> Don't be afraid to be rude and uncooperative with
> these guys. Any cooperation you give them will be
> gleefully accepted but never reciprocated. My response
> to a request to pose for a photo would be to raise my
> middle finger and say "Photograph this."

I'm with you in spirit monkey but I would rethink that middle finger advise. I personally don't want to do anything that the casino can claim is disruptive, disorderly ect and give them a reason to hold me for the police. Even tho you may have those charges thrown out, it's a pain and waste of time to do so. better to just leave as quietly and quickly as possible.

[LVBear584]

I agree with the above. Casino guards are often not rational people, and might react violently to a minor provocation such as being shown the finger. Below is a link that may be helpful to some.

Minimizing Risk of Personal Injury During Casino Backoffs and Barrings

[Parker]

> I'm with you in spirit monkey but I would rethink that
> middle finger advise. I personally don't want to do
> anything that the casino can claim is disruptive,
> disorderly ect and give them a reason to hold me for
> the police. Even tho you may have those charges thrown
> out, it's a pain and waste of time to do so. better to
> just leave as quietly and quickly as possible.

I also agree with this. While a certain amount of emotional satisfaction may be gained by a "one finger salute" or similar action, it comes at too high a price.

The goal during any back-off/86'ing situation should be to be as un-memorable as possible. Any sort of confrontation should be avoided - just leave quickly.

That way, you can hopefully return at a later date and hit them again, which should provide even more emotional satisfaction. :-)

[Greasy John]

> I was approached by a Casino employee just as I was on
> my way out the door. He said "no more
> blackjack". I was polite as always, but a
> security guard was there just a few seconds after I
> was stopped. I did not provide ID, only a fake name.
> The guard said that if I came back it would be
> trespassing. I signed nothing, and there didn't seem
> to be any formal text. I complied with the guards
> request to stand in a spot for a picture, this was
> just on the main floor not in any kind of office or
> back room. They were professional, but obviously
> following their procedures.

> How do I know if I have been legally trespassed? They
> have my picture(s), no ID, no real name. I have a
> players card at this place but did not use it this
> trip.

> If this helps, I can say that I was at place 'a', won
> about 28 units in a short heads-up session, but walked
> to place 'b' to redeem the checks. They are sister
> properties. They must have followed me for a good 15
> minutes as I visited the mens room as well as a
> leisurly walk.

> I am only in Vegas a couple times a year. My act must
> be pretty crummy ha!

At first you were only backed-off. But the security guard seemed to imply that you were tresspassed. (The casino employee's back-off is probably what happened.) The casino had no legal right to hold you for your photo. But if they request one and you give it, no law has been broken. You could have stated that you do not want your picture taken, turned away, and stated that you are leaving (all done without looking aggressive or threating).

Greasy John

[AutomaticMonkey]

> I agree with the above. Casino guards are often not
> rational people, and might react violently to a minor
> provocation such as being shown the finger. Below is a
> link that may be helpful to some.

Maybe this is just my tough neighborhood background talking, but sometimes a little bit of aggressive demeanor can discourage someone who is "sounding" you to see what they can get away with.

In this case the finger would not be just for personal satisfaction, but as a message that you're a troublemaker, not a trouble taker, and they need proceed no further. If you stand there trembling and apologizing, they might be tempted to see how far they can go, maybe you'll give up your ID or even confess to something. But a finger or other hostile gesture might make them think "OK this guy is belligerent and isn't going to cooperate. Let him keep walking."

Just my opinion and I could be wrong, but that's my reasoning for not being polite during backoffs.

[jblaze]

I would agree on the peaceful exit... A lot of times they'll meet you at the cage and you can see them waiting... just take out the old cell phone, pretend you're talking to them and when they try to stop you tell them you're in a rush... just had a family emergency, need to leave, whatever. (so, if you feel heat at the table, do not proceed to the cage, come back at a later date).

If they greet you at the table, or catch you off guard, be polite. Ask them how their day is going. If you ask someone how they're doing and they say good, they contradict themselves if they act like an ass. Most people try to be congruent.

Just think of it as you doing your job, they doing theirs - things seem to go smoothly from this perspective, and prevent backoffs at cojoined properties, and allow you to play another day down the road.

[Felix Rue-de-Guerre]