Mark Bourgeault: Practical Back-counting Tips/Techniques

[Mark Bourgeault]

I've read several BJ books and none so far give any tips/tricks to back-count efficiently in order to minimize the chance that the casino will "catch you" back-counting...I'm a very good counter at the table, but when I've haphazardly tried to back-count with 3+ players at the table, I rarely get a good look at all the cards being dealt out in response to player's actions (e.g. hit/split/dbl) unless the players are all on one side of the table.

Anyone have any good suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

- Mark

[David Spence]

A few tips, some of which have probably already occurred to you:

1) Look for tables with empty seats near the middle. Standing behind these empty seats offers a good vantage point for all the cards on the table.

2) This is related to the above, but avoid tables that are too full. If a table can accommodate seven players, two or three seated players is ideal; four is passable.

3) Wait until all initial hands have been dealt before counting any cards. This gives you more time to appear uninterested and, since players' cards often cancel each other out, is a quick way to count many cards.

4) With a good, central vantage point, seeing cards beyond the initial ones shouldn't be difficult. Count these cards as they are dealt.

5) If you can't get a good look at some of the later cards, be conservative in your estimates of the count. As Wong points out, there are several biases that lead to overestimating the count: aces look like small cards more than they look like big ones, and pip tens don't resemble other cards in the "high" group.

6) The best way to back count, obviously, is to have a low-limit spotter at the table who can signal you when the count warrants a big bet. This avoids most of the problems of trying to back count alone.

I hope at least some of the above is useful.

David Spence

> I've read several BJ books and none so far give any
> tips/tricks to back-count efficiently in order to
> minimize the chance that the casino will "catch
> you" back-counting...I'm a very good counter at
> the table, but when I've haphazardly tried to
> back-count with 3+ players at the table, I rarely get
> a good look at all the cards being dealt out in
> response to player's actions (e.g. hit/split/dbl)
> unless the players are all on one side of the table.

> Anyone have any good suggestions?

> Thanks in advance.

> - Mark

[wantabe]

A few more suggestions:

1) Look for a spot were there are a couple shoes about to start. Scan for either alot of high cards or low cards on one of the tables. Decide which table to watch base on the better count.

2) Asking for a comp can be useful. If you are already at the table, you can leave when you get the comp; Or stay if the count is good. I know that this is not back counting but starting out a shoe and leaving at the correct wong point is also a good method.

Or ask for a comp at a table that is about to start that you are not playing at. This gives you a reason to stand by that table. You are waiting for your comp.

3) Before back counting you should study what the cards look like so that you can identify them from a slight distance.

Wantabe

> A few tips, some of which have probably already
> occurred to you:

> 1) Look for tables with empty seats near the middle.
> Standing behind these empty seats offers a good
> vantage point for all the cards on the table.

> 2) This is related to the above, but avoid tables that
> are too full. If a table can accommodate seven
> players, two or three seated players is ideal; four is
> passable.

> 3) Wait until all initial hands have been dealt before
> counting any cards. This gives you more time to appear
> uninterested and, since players' cards often cancel
> each other out, is a quick way to count many cards.

> 4) With a good, central vantage point, seeing cards
> beyond the initial ones shouldn't be difficult. Count
> these cards as they are dealt.

> 5) If you can't get a good look at some of the later
> cards, be conservative in your estimates of the count.
> As Wong points out, there are several biases that lead
> to overestimating the count: aces look like small
> cards more than they look like big ones, and pip tens
> don't resemble other cards in the "high"
> group.

> 6) The best way to back count, obviously, is to have a
> low-limit spotter at the table who can signal you when
> the count warrants a big bet. This avoids most of the
> problems of trying to back count alone.

> I hope at least some of the above is useful.

> David Spence

[David Spence]

In determining the optimal number of people at a table for backcounting, you have to weigh the balance between ease of counting and the number of cards seen per round. It's easier to see all the cards with fewer people, but more people at a table means more cards per round, and hence fewer rounds on average to wait before a good count.

A male dealer may tolerate an attractive female backcounter for many rounds. Such a player might be better off at a table with only one other person, since a large number of rounds can be observed before entering. As a balding man of questionable beauty, however, I'm lucky if I can observe two rounds and still place a large mid-shoe bet without a shuffle. Consequently, I prefer a table with three other people for backcounting.

> I've read several BJ books and none so far give any
> tips/tricks to back-count efficiently in order to
> minimize the chance that the casino will "catch
> you" back-counting...I'm a very good counter at
> the table, but when I've haphazardly tried to
> back-count with 3+ players at the table, I rarely get
> a good look at all the cards being dealt out in
> response to player's actions (e.g. hit/split/dbl)
> unless the players are all on one side of the table.

> Anyone have any good suggestions?

> Thanks in advance.

> - Mark

[chgobjpro]

Ace, 5, 7, 9 have a single pip in the middle of the card.
9's look alot like 10's but have a pip in the middle of the card.

[someday]

This advice comes from an article titled

...AND CHEW GUM AT THE SAME TIME
(TIPS ON BLACKJACK CARD COUNTING TECHNIQUE)
By Kyle Sever

It is on Snyder's site. I digress. Learn to count based on the number of pips on the card and not on the numbers themselves. One can achieve this by marking out the numbers on a deck of cards, forcing you to relearn. You will find that backcounting is easier when you don't have to always rely on seeing the card perfectly.

[Norm Wattenberger]

Casino Verite has long had an option to remove the numbers from the cards to aid in pattern recognition. Nothing new about this. There were decks made a century and more ago without numbers.

> This advice comes from an article titled

> ...AND CHEW GUM AT THE SAME TIME
> (TIPS ON BLACKJACK CARD COUNTING TECHNIQUE)
> By Kyle Sever

> It is on Snyder's site. I digress. Learn to count
> based on the number of pips on the card and not on the
> numbers themselves. One can achieve this by marking
> out the numbers on a deck of cards, forcing you to
> relearn. You will find that backcounting is easier
> when you don't have to always rely on seeing the card
> perfectly.

[steve]

> Anyone have any good suggestions?

> Thanks in advance.

> - Mark

Wonging or backcc are very important things, which should be installed for many many years of playing. My BR is big enough for $100 min. tables, but I don`t play them . I play the 10$ tables with 1000 max. and still sitting out the $10 when the TC is minus.
This is only possible, when you are a regular in your casino and can SIT ON YOUR CHAIR, while counting. The approach of standing in front of the table for several thousand shoes is not satisfying.

steve

[Illusion]

> Casino Verite has long had an option to remove the
> numbers from the cards to aid in pattern recognition.
> Nothing new about this. There were decks made a
> century and more ago without numbers.

Bottom line, learn to count using the pip's it will take about an hour to learn the pattern's the pip's make 8 hours or so to be good at it. With practice with a good dealer placing the cards properly on the lay out you should be able to back count a good 15 feet or more away (with a clear view of course).

Norm I've used that option in CV but did not care for it as the top card covered to much of the bottom card, unlike proper card placement where the center most pip is not covered. I don't know if you've changed the lay out in new versions. I have the 3.0 I think.

[Norm Wattenberger]

There just isn't enough space on a monitor to separate them as in a casino. Does give me an idea though.

> Bottom line, learn to count using the pip's it will
> take about an hour to learn the pattern's the pip's
> make 8 hours or so to be good at it. With practice
> with a good dealer placing the cards properly on the
> lay out you should be able to back count a good 15
> feet or more away (with a clear view of course).

> Norm I've used that option in CV but did not care for
> it as the top card covered to much of the bottom card,
> unlike proper card placement where the center most pip
> is not covered. I don't know if you've changed the lay
> out in new versions. I have the 3.0 I think.

[Magician]

> There just isn't enough space on a monitor to separate
> them as in a casino. Does give me an idea though.

Transparent cards? Or dual monitor support?

[Norm Wattenberger]

> Transparent cards? Or dual monitor support?

I have many different card sets. I could optionally use a smaller card set with a larger screen size.

Actually I was thinking of using dual monitor support for another purpose. But, dual monitors are still a rarity.