casino ploppy: effect of removal ques. for Don

[casino ploppy]

I have the info for effects of removal of a card in various multiple deck games. I know the values are different if you are facing H17 or S17. How would u determine the values if late surrender is used? Can you just use the value of the ls game and add the effect of removal from the non ls effect of removal table?

example:
4 deck h17,das,ls = -.463

From my information the effect of removal of a 5 in the 4 deck h17,das game is .162

So even though the effect of removal table does not include late surrender. Is it ok to just say
-.463 (advantage of 4 deck, h17, ls game) + .162 (value of a 5 in 4 deck h17 game) = -.301

Thank you for your time

[Don Schlesinger]

> I have the info for effects of removal of a card in
> various multiple deck games.

From where?

> I know the values are
> different if you are facing H17 or S17.

Yes, slightly. See BJA3, p. 522.

> How would u
> determine the values if late surrender is used?

See Table D17, p. 522! :-)

> Can
> you just use the value of the ls game and add the
> effect of removal from the non ls effect of removal
> table?

No.

> example:
> 4 deck h17,das,ls = -.463

I assume you mean that this is the off-the-top player edge. Table C1 in BJA3 gives the correct edge as -0.476. You were close! :-)

> From my information the effect of removal of a 5 in
> the 4 deck h17,das game is .162

More like about 0.183.

> So even though the effect of removal table does not
> include late surrender. Is it ok to just say
> -.463 (advantage of 4 deck, h17, ls game) + .162
> (value of a 5 in 4 deck h17 game) = -.301

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Are you trying to find the EOR of the five in a H17, DAS, LS game? If so, that value is about 0.210. I'm not sure what you were trying to show, above.

> Thank you for your time.

You're welcome. Answers to your questions can be found in the Appendix D of BJA3.

Don

[casino ploppy]

> From where?

bj math.com table by Caruco? "Effects of Removal"

> Yes, slightly. See BJA3, p. 522.

> See Table D17, p. 522! :-)

> No.

> I assume you mean that this is the off-the-top player
> edge. Table C1 in BJA3 gives the correct edge as
> -0.476. You were close! :-)

Yes off the top edge.

> More like about 0.183.

> I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Are you
> trying to find the EOR of the five in a H17, DAS, LS
> game? If so, that value is about 0.210. I'm not sure
> what you were trying to show, above.

Yes, that is what I am trying to do.

> You're welcome. Answers to your questions can be found
> in the Appendix D of BJA3.

So in BJA 3 you have tables showing the off the top advantage of various games? I am referring to the first hand. About how many different games?

Also, in BJA3 you have tables showing the effect of removal of cards for the various games? Similar to the "Effects of Removal" table at bjmath.com?

In Beyond Counting by James Grosjean on pg 34 he talks about the running Hi Low count and he gives the running count advantage. Is this advantage the global value at that advantage assuming an average number of decks? I would think it is not appropriate off the top?

Thanks again

> Don

[Don Schlesinger]

> bj math.com table by Caruco? "Effects of
> Removal"

Cacarulo

> So in BJA 3 you have tables showing the off the top
> advantage of various games?

Yes. Plus Appendix C, with the values of all rules variations, so you can make your own combinations. All courtesy of Cacarulo.

> I am referring to the
> first hand. About how many different games?

All of them! :-)

> Also, in BJA3 you have tables showing the effect of
> removal of cards for the various games? Similar to the
> "Effects of Removal" table at bjmath.com?

Better, more complete, updated, etc.

> In Beyond Counting by James Grosjean on pg 34 he talks
> about the running Hi Low count and he gives the
> running count advantage. Is this advantage the global
> value at that advantage assuming an average number of
> decks? I would think it is not appropriate off the
> top?

From rereading what James wrote, and from looking at the play departures he recommends, at the various RCs, it would seem that, for this 6-deck game, he is assuming an average penetration of three decks, to make his estimates.

> Thanks again

You're welcome. By the way, asking questions about EORs and quoting Grosjean, whom do you think you're kidding by signing "casino ploppy"?? :-)

Don

[Magician]

> You're welcome. By the way, asking questions about
> EORs and quoting Grosjean, whom do you think you're
> kidding by signing "casino ploppy"?? :-)

Obviously knows all about cover too. :-)