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Thread: MrPill: Tournament Blackjack

  1. #1
    MrPill
    Guest

    MrPill: Tournament Blackjack


    FYI,

    Coming this Fall to CBS.

    Looks interesting and may catch on like all the Poker shows.

    May lead to more educated players and a means to bring to light some of the bad rules out there. The exposure can't hurt and I would venture to guess that some of the sidebar discussion by the hosts would be about rules (good and bad).

    Pill



  2. #2
    AutomaticMonkey
    Guest

    AutomaticMonkey: Not hopeful for changing the public's perception of BJ rules

    > May lead to more educated players and a means to bring
    > to light some of the bad rules out there. The exposure
    > can't hurt and I would venture to guess that some of
    > the sidebar discussion by the hosts would be about
    > rules (good and bad).

    Sorry I just don't see that happening. The players you see at the table are not there for the same reason and they are there with the intention of losing. Winning an even-money bet has no attraction for them; they get blinded by jackpots. So what you'll probably see is something more like the poker based games brought on by the poker craze: some BJ game that the casinos can pass off to the uneducated as being like tournament BJ, but with the same 2-5% house edge as any other new game. What's worse, anything they come up with will probably elbow out real BJ tables like 6:5 and Sp21 did.

    On the other hand, every new thing they do creates a potential for new kinds of AP, so watch out.

  3. #3
    Victoria
    Guest

    Victoria: Re: Tournament Blackjack

    > FYI,

    > Coming this Fall to CBS.

    > Looks interesting and may catch on like all the Poker
    > shows.

    > May lead to more educated players and a means to bring
    > to light some of the bad rules out there. The exposure
    > can't hurt and I would venture to guess that some of
    > the sidebar discussion by the hosts would be about
    > rules (good and bad).

    > Pill

    Pill
    In watching the past tournaments on TV, with Max Rubin as one of the commentators, rules were mentioned at times and basically glossed over. They did not go into too much detail I think because a casino is hosting or sponsoring these things. Also tournament blackjack is quite different than table play and since it has been on tv I have witnessed someone doubling blackjack (risking a double bet when you no longer had any risk on your single bet inorder to possibly win 33% more?)and quite a few folks splitting 10's in negative counts (which I appreciated because of the card eating effect).

    At least they did say that cardcounting is legal.

    What tournament blackjack on TV will do, if it is successful, will add more bad players to the tables increasing casino profits greatly. Remember that the house edge might only be .26% in a good shoe game but the house makes more like 3% because the players are bad.

    Victoria


  4. #4
    MrPill
    Guest

    MrPill: Re: Tournament Blackjack

    > .......and quite a few folks splitting 10's in negative
    > counts (which I appreciated because of the card eating
    > effect).

    Guess you don't look so obvious when you split tens at a positive count then, since everyone is doing it.

    At first I thought you were talking about tourney play but then realized you were talking about tourney plays getting out to the regular tables.

    Maybe my post is just wishful thinking on my part.

    Hopefully though it will also lead to an increase number of well run tournies, which can have a very high EV for someone with the right skills.

    Pill


  5. #5
    HALVESX2
    Guest

    HALVESX2: Re: Tournament Blackjack

    > Also tournament blackjack is quite different than table > play and since it has been
    > on tv I have witnessed someone doubling blackjack
    > (risking a double bet when you no longer had any risk
    > on your single bet inorder to possibly win 33%
    > more?)and quite a few folks splitting 10's in negative
    > counts (which I appreciated because of the card eating
    > effect).

    what you hvnt noticed is probably the remaining chips each person has, for a professional tourney player if he is trailing the leader, eg, by $80 and the leader has betted the same amount as him $100, the pro gets a bj but however the leader holds 20 vs 7(very likely win) the bj's winning isnt enough to get the pro a lead.
    if it's the last couple of hands for the round, the leader will be betting before the pro in the last hand or 2, then it would be a correct play to double that hand for the extra $50 to try to take the lead as it would allow him to lock up the present leader in the last hand of play and proceed to the next round.


  6. #6
    Trapper
    Guest

    Trapper: Re: Tournament Blackjack

    It seems unlikely that blackjack will ever come close to generating the TV ratings that poker has but If blackjack tournaments takes off as a minor TV spectacle, it will similarly lead to the sales of books and dvds. Most of the books will be bad, some will be good. All will discuss good and bad rules and game selection. Casinos will take notice and interest would extend to traditional blackjack as well as potentially new carnival games and tournaments. Poker on TV boosted the participation in no limit holdem tournaments but also limit holdem and other poker games. Over time, games have become tighter as players become more knowledgeable. It's possible that Casinos could be forced to offer better conditions after an initial windfall of inexperienced bad players.
    .

  7. #7
    Trapper
    Guest

    Trapper: She was referring to tournament strategy incorrectly used in a cash game *NM*


  8. #8
    AutomaticMonkey
    Guest

    AutomaticMonkey: It might increase crowds too

    One frightening possibility is that a national BJ craze might do to BJ tables what the poker craze did to poker tables: make it difficult to get a seat. It doesn't have any up side because we don't profit from having weak players at a BJ table. It might cause the casinos to install more BJ, but I doubt it- they'd just as soon keep all the BJ tables full all the time and put in more slots. Less work, less risk.

    The only positive side I can see to it is that it might make it easier for AP's to hide, e.g., if everyone is splitting 10's we will attract less attention when we do it, and crazy betting will make our spreads and sequence-triggered bets blend in.


  9. #9
    Trapper
    Guest

    Trapper: Re: It might increase crowds too

    > It might cause the
    > casinos to install more BJ, but I doubt it- they'd
    > just as soon keep all the BJ tables full all the time
    > and put in more slots. Less work, less risk.

    Not likely to move slot machines but if the demand is high they might convert some carny games to BJ. Of course, it's all wishful thinking at this point.


  10. #10
    Count of Montecristo
    Guest

    Count of Montecristo: Re: Tournament Blackjack

    I just don't see it catching on even remotely close to the poker tournaments craze. There are so many more complexities in a BJ tournament than in a Hold 'em tournament. It's a lot easier for a poker ploppie to make it to the final table of a Hold 'em tournament, than a BJ ploppie making it. While the poker pros certainly have an advantage over the newbies, it's nowhere near as big an advantage as the true BJ tourney players have over the clueless BJ players. The learning curve to master a BJ tournament is a lot harder than that of poker. I hope I'm wrong and it catches on like wildfire, but I don't think it will.

    > FYI,

    > Coming this Fall to CBS.

    > Looks interesting and may catch on like all the Poker
    > shows.

    > May lead to more educated players and a means to bring
    > to light some of the bad rules out there. The exposure
    > can't hurt and I would venture to guess that some of
    > the sidebar discussion by the hosts would be about
    > rules (good and bad).

    > Pill

  11. #11
    Bettie
    Guest

    Bettie: I think you're right

    > I just don't see it catching on even remotely close to
    > the poker tournaments craze.
    *snip*
    > I hope I'm wrong and it
    > catches on like wildfire, but I don't think it will.

    The biggest "problem" with getting bj tournaments to catch on is that they are played completely differently than if you were to just sit down at a table and play. There are nuances to poker tournament play, but it's not radically different as it is in bj tournament play.

    You can sit down and catch a poker game anywhere, and use those same skills to play in a tournament and nothing's (too) different. You always play against the other players and the format is usually the same. Not so with bj tournaments because you switch from playing you versus the dealer to you versus everyone else at the table AND the dealer. Suddenly, chip count comes into question where it didn't before and people make strange plays to increase/decrease their exposure on the table dependent upon what's going on around them.

    Throw in secret bets and elimination rounds that prevent good players from scraping their way back into position, and there's no way that the average schmoe is going to start clamoring to see it in their local casino. Not that it doesn't make for excellent television. I've seen an episode of the UBT show and it was great. Well-produced, well-edited, and really, really fun to watch (it helps that it was a Hollywood Dave episode). I wish them all the luck in the world and we were happy to be part of the seminal season. I just don't see it in the casinos anytime soon. I hope I'm wrong.

    Bettie

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