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Thread: MGP: ES10, ESA Definitions

  1. #1
    MGP
    Guest

    MGP: ES10, ESA Definitions

    I'm confused again about how surrender plays out in these situations. Previously someone said ES10 was Early surrender against 10 but that late surrender was allowed against A (http://www.advantageplayer.com/black...cgi?read=18261). Now on the beginner page and in a recent post there is the suggestion that ES10 means you can Early surrender against 10 but not surrender at all against ace. Since I've never played BJ in Europe, I have no idea what's the norm for these situations.

    Can someone please clarify how most casinoes in Europe or elsewhere that offer Early Surrender against a 10 or Ace restrict the surrender against other upcards?

    I.e., Please define ES10 and ESA for me.

    Currently I have:

    ES10: Early surrender against 10 and surrender against 2-9, late against A.
    ESA: Early surrender against A and (late) surrender against 2-10.

    Is it the following?:

    ES10: Early surrender against 10 and surrender against 2-9, no surrender against A.
    ESA: Early surrender against A and surrender against 2-9 and no surrender against 10.

    Thanks,
    MGP

    ES10: Early against

  2. #2
    Francis Salmon
    Guest

    Francis Salmon: Never heard about ESA

    I don't think ESA the way you describe it exists at all.
    There is ES10 which means that you can surrender against anything except the ace.And then there is unrestricted ES which is the same as Early surrender in the USA.

    Francis Salmon

  3. #3
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Re: Never heard about ESA

    > I don't think ESA the way you describe it exists at
    > all.

    Probably not. It would be ridiculous for a casino to allow ES vs. the ace but not the 10.

    Since ES10 exists, I think people started calling total ES (vs. 10 and ace) ESA, to indicate that you could not only ES vs. 10 but vs. ace, too. I think that, nowadays, when people write ESA, they mean ES, period.

    > There is ES10 which means that you can surrender
    > against anything except the ace.

    But it's EARLY surrender vs. the 10.

    > And then there is
    > unrestricted ES which is the same as Early surrender
    > in the USA.

    Right. But, it is possible that there are some casinos where you may ES vs. 10 and late surrender vs. ace, but that is not the norm.

    Don

  4. #4
    MGP
    Guest

    MGP: Most Common ES/LS Combinations

    Ok, thanks guys.

    So my understanding now is that the following 3 forms of ES are found:

    1) Early Surrender against all upcards, which is just plain ES.
    2) Early Surrender against 2-10 but No Surrender against A. This is what is commonly referred to as ES10.

    and the least common which doesn't really have a name is

    3) Early Surrender agains 2-10 and Late Surrender against A

    There may also be other combinations but they are much less common.

    Does that summarize things correctly?

    Thanks again in advance,
    MGP

  5. #5
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Yes, correct

    BS edges for all these combinations can be found in Appendix D of BJA3.

    Don

  6. #6
    Halvesx2
    Guest

    Halvesx2: Re: ES10, ESA Definitions

    just out of curiousity, wat about late surrender against 10 and no surrender against Aces?
    wats the house edge on that?

  7. #7
    MGP
    Guest

    MGP: Re: ES10, ESA Definitions

    > just out of curiousity, wat about late surrender
    > against 10 and no surrender against Aces?
    > wats the house edge on that?

    What are all the rules?

  8. #8
    MGP
    Guest

    MGP: Thanks

    > BS edges for all these combinations can be found in
    > Appendix D of BJA3.

    > Don

    They can also be found on my CA , but I wanted the terminology to be correct.

    Thanks again,
    MGP

  9. #9
    Ikipiros
    Guest

    Ikipiros: ENHC and Surrender

    With ENHC rules surrender is always Early Surrender. It is not practical for a casino with ENHC to have Late surrender as the players surrender at the beginning and the delear will only know whether he gets a BJ after all players have played their hands and he receives his second hand. For a Late Surrender to work then the Players will surrender, the dealear (when he has Ace or 10) will then have to leave the bets on the circle and then remember to collect half the bet if there is no BJ and all the bet if there is BJ. Or to collect half the bet immediately and wait untill he plays to see if there is BJ to collect the other half or give it back to the player if no BJ.
    If Late Surrender with ENHC existed, the Dealers will make so many mistakes in the payouts in the above scenarios that it would be probably be better than Early surrender.

    Most casinos that offer Early Surrender with ENHC offer only ES10.

  10. #10
    MGP
    Guest

    MGP: Thanks *NM*


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