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Thread: Rockky: early surrender hous edge

  1. #1
    Rockky
    Guest

    Rockky: early surrender hous edge

    Can anyone please give me the house edge for the following game:
    early surrender, no hole card (lose double and splits for dearler nature), split up to 4 hands, double after split, split aces only once, dealer stands on soft 17, 6 d shoe. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Re: early surrender hous edge

    > Can anyone please give me the house edge for
    > the following game:
    > early surrender, no hole card (lose double
    > and splits for dearler nature), split up to
    > 4 hands, double after split, split aces only
    > once, dealer stands on soft 17, 6 d shoe.
    > Thanks.

    The player has an edge of about 0.116. The problem is that I'm not sure exactly what DAS is worth when ENHC is in effect. Since you don't split 8,8 v. 10, you lose a little for not being able to double the 11s v. 10 that might result from the split.

    Don

  3. #3
    Parker
    Guest

    Parker: Re: early surrender hous edge

    > The player has an edge of about 0.116. The
    > problem is that I'm not sure exactly what
    > DAS is worth when ENHC is in effect. Since
    > you don't split 8,8 v. 10, you lose a little
    > for not being able to double the 11s v. 10
    > that might result from the split.

    Should be pretty close. I plugged everything into Wong's BJEdge program and came up with a player edge of .11.

  4. #4
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Re: early surrender house edge

    > Should be pretty close. I plugged everything
    > into Wong's BJEdge program and came up with
    > a player edge of .11.

    I doubt very much that the program accounts for the interaction I described, although I'm sure the play I mentioned simply isn't worth very much.

    Don

  5. #5
    Rockky
    Guest

    Rockky: Correction

    Thanks for the responses. I am sorry, I meant no resplit of aces. I think my original message was a bit confusing in this regard. Was the edge calculated on this assumption?

  6. #6
    Parker
    Guest

    Parker: Clear to me

    > Thanks for the responses. I am sorry, I
    > meant no resplit of aces. I think my
    > original message was a bit confusing in this
    > regard. Was the edge calculated on this
    > assumption?

    I interpreted "split aces only once" to mean that no resplitting of aces is allowed, and I am reasonably certain that Don did the same.

  7. #7
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Right *NM*


  8. #8
    Francis Salmon
    Guest

    Francis Salmon: Negligible

    > The player has an edge of about 0.116. The
    > problem is that I'm not sure exactly what
    > DAS is worth when ENHC is in effect. Since
    > you don't split 8,8 v. 10, you lose a little
    > for not being able to double the 11s v. 10
    > that might result from the split.

    Most of the advantage of ths DAS-rule stems from splits against lower cards.
    Under hole card rules, doubling 11 versus 10 is only by 6% better than hitting. If you factor in the rarity of its occurrence after a split of eights versus 10, it becomes obvious that this is negligible.
    So, even under ENHC conditions, the gain from the DAS rule is still 0.14%.

    Francis Salmon

  9. #9
    MGP
    Guest

    MGP: Re: early surrender hous edge

    > Can anyone please give me the house edge for
    > the following game:
    > early surrender, no hole card (lose double
    > and splits for dearler nature), split up to
    > 4 hands, double after split, split aces only
    > once, dealer stands on soft 17, 6 d shoe.
    > Thanks.

    The exact TD strategy EV for this game is 0.126083457510871% Both a 2-card strategy and a BJA3 strategy are within 0.0004% of this value.

  10. #10
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Re: early surrender hous edge

    > The exact TD strategy EV for this game is
    > 0.126083457510871% Both a 2-card strategy
    > and a BJA3 strategy are within 0.0004% of
    > this value.

    Table C1 in BJA3 gives me 0.116. Can you find where the extra hundredth for the player is coming from?

    Don

  11. #11
    MGP
    Guest

    MGP: Re: early surrender hous edge

    > Table C1 in BJA3 gives me 0.116. Can you
    > find where the extra hundredth for the
    > player is coming from?

    I have no idea how I would be able to figure that out If you like I can post the spreadsheet (I'll have to replace the Macau rules one) or email it to you - just let me know if either would be helpful.

  12. #12
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Re: early surrender hous edge

    > I have no idea how I would be able to figure
    > that out

    1. Top of the chart, 6-deck s17 starting edge: -.546
    2. DAS/SPL3: +.142
    3. ES: +.629
    4. ENHC: -.109

    Total: +.116

    Don

  13. #13
    MGP
    Guest

    MGP: Re: early surrender hous edge

    > 1. Top of the chart, 6-deck s17 starting
    > edge: -.546
    > 2. DAS/SPL3: +.142
    > 3. ES: +.629
    > 4. ENHC: -.109

    > Total: +.116

    LOL - no I get that. I meant how I'm supposed to figure out where 0.01% difference comes from out of a table of hundreds of EV's...

    It's got to be some interplay of the rules... I'm not sure what the strategy was for the no surrender strategy - but the surrender with ES for 16 vs 10 is R,S - maybe that's it...

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