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Thread: MJ: Illustrious 18

  1. #1
    MJ
    Guest

    MJ: Illustrious 18

    Would the top 18 indice plays for an unbalanced system such as KO be different then the top 18 indice plays for a true counted system?

    -MJ

  2. #2
    pm
    Guest

    pm: Quote from John..

    I remember John addressed this in the one thread..

    > In fact, I would guess that the so-called
    > "I18 and F4" are not the same, and
    > almost certainly not the same rank,
    > depending on the count's card tags, and for
    > unbalanced counts, the pivot.

    > So a real true comparison would take each
    > systems top 18 and top 4 surrenders. It
    > would not assume that TC and RC based
    > systems would have the same one's.

    > One has to draw the line somewhere. Even
    > decks-in-play, rules, and penetration could
    > affect inclusion and order.

    Here's the link:

    http://www.advantageplayer.com/black...cgi?read=16197

  3. #3
    MJ
    Guest

    MJ: Re: Quote from John..

    Thanks PM. That quote from John got me thinking. I want to get as much bang for my buck out of KO as I possibly can without true counting the system.

    If John is correct then how do I determine the I-18 F4 for KO? I don't really know much about running SIMS. Would it be difficult to set up a SIM to find the top 18 indice plays for KO using either SBA or CV Data?

    Assuming a unique indice number is used for each indice play would there possibly be any substantial gain in EV?

    -MJ
    > I remember John addressed this in the one
    > thread..

    > Here's the link:

    >
    > http://www.advantageplayer.com/black...cgi?read=16197

  4. #4
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: My suggestion: don't bother

    > If John is correct then how do I determine
    > the I-18 F4 for KO?

    With great difficulty! :-)

    > I don't really know much
    > about running SIMS. Would it be difficult to
    > set up a SIM to find the top 18 indice plays
    > for KO using either SBA or CV Data?

    Yes. My suggestion is to forget it, because I really doubt that the plays will turn oput to be much different.

    > Assuming a unique index number is used for
    > each index play would there possibly be any
    > substantial gain in EV?

    No, almost certainly not. Just my opinion -- but not necessarily an uneducated guess! :-)

    Don

  5. #5
    Norm Wattenberger
    Guest

    Norm Wattenberger: Re: Quote from John..

    When I looked at KO awhile back, I thought 16v9 was fairly useless. 12v6 also has little gain. 8v5 and 8v6 are more important. A full list in order is a lot of work.





    www.Blackjack-Scams.com

  6. #6
    MJ
    Guest

    MJ: What about Risk Averse Indices...

    do you think these indices would make any worthwhile difference in EV?

    -MJ

  7. #7
    MJ
    Guest

    MJ: Splitting 10s

    What about splitting 10s vs 5 and 6? Do you consider these 2 plays to be in the top 4 indice plays excluding insurance for KO?

    The KO authors never provided indice values for the 10 splits due to heat considerations. Nevertheless I am considering implementing them in hopes of gaining additional EV. Would this be a worthwhile addition? If so would it be difficult to set up a SIM to generate the indice values for these 2 plays? Thanks for any further help.

    -MJ


  8. #8
    Norm Wattenberger
    Guest

    Norm Wattenberger: Re: Splitting 10s


    The index for splitting Tens is always high EV.



  9. #9
    Sun Runner
    Guest

    Sun Runner: Re: Splitting 10s

    > What about splitting 10s vs 5 and 6? Do you
    > consider these 2 plays to be in the top 4
    > indice plays excluding insurance for KO?

    Top four? Probably. Do they increase the EV? Mathmatically yes.

    However, most responses you are gonna get here are its too much a counter give away and what is your EV if your on the outside looking in?

    Zero.

    I don't play black, but I do like to split tens and will at TC of 6 or better (I think 4 or 5 is the correct Hilo index.)

    But you better have at least a little act put together when you do go on stage because splitting tens will most times draw the spotlight and usually from the dealer.

    "You're gonna split them two tens?" "Really?" "Are you sure?" [Slur that loudly in your best Billy Bob Thornton imitation.)

    Crap; they act like you're trying to double a hard 12 or something!

  10. #10
    Don Schlesinger
    Guest

    Don Schlesinger: Re: What about Risk Averse Indices...

    > do you think these indices would make any
    > worthwhile difference in EV?

    See BJA3. 2-3% improvement-- maybe.

    Don

  11. #11
    mr k
    Guest

    mr k: Re: Splitting 10s

    > Top four? Probably. Do they increase the EV?
    > Mathmatically yes.

    > However, most responses you are gonna get
    > here are its too much a counter give away
    > and what is your EV if your on the outside
    > looking in?

    > Zero.

    > I don't play black, but I do like to split
    > tens and will at TC of 6 or better (I think
    > 4 or 5 is the correct Hilo index.)

    > But you better have at least a little act
    > put together when you do go on stage because
    > splitting tens will most times draw the
    > spotlight and usually from the dealer.

    > "You're gonna split them two
    > tens?" "Really?" "Are
    > you sure?" [Slur that loudly in your
    > best Billy Bob Thornton imitation.)

    > Crap; they act like you're trying to double
    > a hard 12 or something!
    Mj,

    Hope this helps...we used 6 for 10 vs 5 and 5 for 10 vs. 6. Add 1 to index for each stiff you get when splitting tens. So if you split 10's against a 5, get a 4 on your first 10 and another 10 on the second, the index number moves up from 6 to 7 to decide whether to re-split on the second hand. After all if your splitting ten's you'll get someones attention...might as well get the money out there while you have the advantage.


  12. #12
    MJ
    Guest

    MJ: Thanks *NM*


  13. #13
    Wolverine
    Guest

    Wolverine: Check the environment

    MJ--
    I personally do not split 10s (yet?!?) but have the index memorized for when the time is right to pull it off. If the environment is right, I might just try it.

    Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that scouting and/or recon is important. A little while ago I posted a "trip report" at a local casino I wanted to go scout out. I played for 30 minutes, but what I found out was that splitting 10s here was no big deal. Players were doing it all over the place (and the count didn't justify it) and the dealers didn't blink an eye. In fact, after they left, the dealer was very happy to point out to me (I was playing the dumb newbie during this trip) that splitting 10s is a stupid move. As Ouchez points out often, ANYTHING you can do to appear as a non-threat to the casino (e.g., STUPID) would be a good thing. Perhaps a minimum bet split of tens would later set up the max bet split of tens when the count calls for it. Consider it cover and a small investment. Just my 2 cents.

    On the other hand, at my usual haunt--I wouldn't split 10's unless you had a gun to my head! I've never done it in over 15 years and all of a sudden to pull that move--they would know SOMETHING is up. All they have to do is review the videotape and find out the count was TC +6 and you're busted.

    Enjoy making the decision about whether to do it or not. It isn't an easy one.

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