14 v T surrender index?

[bjarg]

Edited.

[BJFan]

The 14 v T Hi-Lo surrender index for Early Surrender is 0, for Late Surrender is +3.

[bjarg]

The 14 v T Hi-Lo surrender index for Early Surrender is 0, for Late Surrender is +3.

Edited.

[PinkChip]

Hi all!
I use HiLo and the surrender index Ive always used for 14vT is +3.
I recently started playing at a store that has 6D, S17, ES10 and everyone there is telling me that the surrender index for that hand is 0.
Im a little bit confused and I was wondering if anyone could help me clarify this.
Does the ES10 rule change the surrender index?
Thanks!

The reason for the lower index number when playing ES10 is, if you have 14 and the dealer has a 10 up, you make the Early Surrender decision before the dealer checks (or draws) his/her second card. So the second dealer card could be an Ace, which would give the dealer an unbeatable 21. So your chances of winning the hand are even lower than at a Late Surrender game, where the dealer has already checked for blackjack and found no Ace under his Ten (otherwise you would have no chance to surrender at all).

[bigplayer]

Thank you! Are there any other variations on surrender indices I should be considering for this??

All of the indexes for surrendering vs 10 or Ace are different for ES versus LS. You should pick up a copy of Professional Blackjack, all of them are right there in the book.

[BJFan]

ES1012vT: +813vT: +317vT: +5

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Understand that with LS your indices in a H17 game are significantly lower than in a S17 game.

[White Guy]

Flash- Can you please elaborate on this?

With LS and Hi Lo:

My Understanding was they are close enough to use them at the same indice # except the indices vs an Ace. Keep in mind I only use -1 - +10 also.

If you really want to be perfect you can adjust a little depending on the exact cards that make your hand.

According to Pro B jack 8-7 should be surrendered earlier than 10-5 but this should get you started.

Here are my LS indices. If someone else has some input please let me know.



14 v 10 3
14 v 9 6
14 v A 6. H17 (4)

15 v 9 2
15 v 10 0
15 v A 1 H17 (-1)

16 v 10, ACE basically always since the indices are more - than you'd want to play at.

16 v 9 surrender in + counts.

Of course 8,8 is another story. As is 7,7. I Also have looked these up several places and they can vary 1 TC # depending on where you look but these are the numbers I decided on and use.

If you want more PM me.

[White Guy]

Tthree:

I understand the reasoning. Just wondering if I missed something because in my research on the indices only a few that deal with surrender really change. They are the ones I mentioned above that deal with an ace up. Other than that, they are the same. Right?

[White Guy]

Of course. In high counts the dealer is less likely to get a 6 under and less likely to draw the small cards that make S17 or hands out of S17.

Unfortunately I have to play both for longevity and location reasons, but fortunately there are only a handful of differences in strategies.

[Coyote]

I try my best not to play H17. It is easy to avoid in my neck of the woods. Something you may not be considering or know. The penalty for playing an H17 game rather than S17 varies with the count. The difference is relatively small where you have an advantage. The more negative the count the higher the penalty paid to play H17 rather than S17. This concept applies to so much but is often overlooked. Understanding it can help you modify your wonging strategy and should tell you the lower the index the more it will feel the affect of the change in rules generally speaking.

Very good post! Many would be wise to understand this concept.
Thanks Tthree.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Oddly enough, yesterday I (late) surrendered a bizarre amount of 14's vs. dealer Faces.

It became laughable how often I surrendered - got chuckled at by ploppies - until the dealer turned up a pat hand.