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Thread: SpiderMan: Back-Counting Question 2

  1. #40
    Parker
    Guest

    Parker: Terms

    > If the definition of "ploppy" is
    > going to be a player with poor skills and a
    > bad attitude, then what is the definition of
    > an AP with an attitude. Food for thought.

    > While I am all for doing anything legal to
    > gain an edge (even if it is at the expense
    > of non APs) becuase this is the way life
    > works, I'm not for gloating around with an
    > elitest attitude becuase I'm a better player
    > thn them. Since the basketball analogy was
    > brought up, what would you think if NBA
    > players had a web ring where they laughed at
    > us for throwing up airballs in our driveway
    > and not being able to dunk a basketball. I
    > understand there is a difference in that we
    > are not entertainers as they are, but they
    > still ultimately make our trade possible. A
    > little positive PR is at least something to
    > think about. I would bet that Grosjean
    > regretted his "civilian" label
    > when the opposition likely brought that
    > comment in front of the jury. Its just
    > another elitest term that would make the
    > average person lack sympathy for our cause.

    I don't see anything elitist about the "civilian" label - it does not imply anything inferior or derogatory, simply something to differentiate between advantage players and all the other people who are in the casino purely for entertainment, most of whom are completely oblivious to all the interactions going on between AP's and casino personnel.

    It's no different than the police using the same term to describe someone who is neither a cop nor a criminal. They don't mean that civilians are inferior to cops - just that they aren't cops.

    As for "ploppy," it is better than "the obnoxious asshole sitting at 1st base blowing cigarette smoke in my face," not to mention easier to type.

    There are certainly advantage players with attitudes. Some of the most annoying people I have met in casinos have been other AP's. Fortunately, they are a minority within a minority, and thus very few in number.

  2. #41
    Kiddangerous
    Guest

    Kiddangerous: if it aint broke dont fix it....

    in 50 years the failure of ap's will be traced back to this thread. ap's nationwide had their attention misdirected to a subject that just didnt really matter. one person mentioned "ploppy" was kind of rude. from there it snowballed. soon non ap's starting coming to the website just to make sure that they were not being referred to as a ploppy. soon lawsuits popped up everywhere. it then became social unexceptable to say "p*****". it wasn't politically correct to categorize a group of people with a name such as "p*****". it wasn't long after that, that AP's around the world fell victim to lawsuits because pure habit lead them to speaking the word "p*****" and someone heard it. today we remember those few who took a stand against casinos and educated themselves on the game to gain a profit. but they f^^^ed up and decided to coin a phrase that simply gave them a point of reference in conversation. but it hurt someones feelings. so now they all have bigger problems to worry about than a house edge. join us tonight for news at 9 where we will learn the history on why we only have one kind of bread now.......who cares.... who cares... who cares who cares.... if that (ploppy) phrase hurts someones feelings then i just want to say.... PLOPPY PLOPPY PLOPPY PLOPPY PLOPPY PLOPPY PLOPPY.....heres a hanky go cry me a river and... go find a friend, a big brother, support group or a self help tape....

    good mornig all! have a great day!

    kid

  3. #42
    pm
    Guest

    pm: Re: if it aint broke dont fix it....

    No DOUBT that this subject doesn't matter. But discussions and arguments are sooo much fun, regardless of the topic.

    (Just as a random personal note, probably to WallSt, please forgive my diatribe of "ploppies" or "civilians" or whatever. I didn't mean to give the impression that only non-APs piss me off; I don't discriminate like that. EVERYONE pisses me off. I hate everyone equally. This was just one random issue out of many to explode over.)


  4. #43
    Bettie
    Guest

    Bettie: Re: Ploppys defined

    > what is the definition of
    > an AP with an attitude.

    98%


    Bettie

  5. #44
    Bettie
    Guest

    Bettie: Ahem!

    > how 'bout a contest
    > to pick a term that's more acceptable in
    > this community? The winner gets, say,
    > first-class airfare from Anywhere to
    > McCarran, where he'll be picked up by Bettie
    > and squired to dinner and the gambling venue
    > of his choice.

    Bettie GETS picked up; she doesn't do the picking up (regardless of what Viktor may tell you!).


    Bettie

  6. #45
    ET Fan
    Guest

    ET Fan: OUTSTANDING. I love this post! ;) *NM*


  7. #46
    WallStRunoff
    Guest

    WallStRunoff: Re: if it aint broke dont fix it....

    > in 50 years the failure of ap's will be
    > traced back to this thread. ap's nationwide
    > had their attention misdirected to a subject
    > that just didnt really matter. one person
    > mentioned "ploppy" was kind of
    > rude. from there it snowballed. soon non
    > ap's starting coming to the website just to
    > make sure that they were not being referred
    > to as a ploppy. soon lawsuits popped up
    > everywhere. it then became social
    > unexceptable to say "p*****". it
    > wasn't politically correct to categorize a
    > group of people with a name such as
    > "p*****". it wasn't long after
    > that, that AP's around the world fell victim
    > to lawsuits because pure habit lead them to
    > speaking the word "p*****" and
    > someone heard it. today we remember those
    > few who took a stand against casinos and
    > educated themselves on the game to gain a
    > profit. but they f^^^ed up and decided to
    > coin a phrase that simply gave them a point
    > of reference in conversation. but it hurt
    > someones feelings. so now they all have
    > bigger problems to worry about than a house
    > edge. join us tonight for news at 9 where we
    > will learn the history on why we only have
    > one kind of bread now.......who cares....
    > who cares... who cares who cares.... if that
    > (ploppy) phrase hurts someones feelings then
    > i just want to say.... PLOPPY PLOPPY PLOPPY
    > PLOPPY PLOPPY PLOPPY PLOPPY.....heres a
    > hanky go cry me a river and... go find a
    > friend, a big brother, support group or a
    > self help tape....

    > good mornig all! have a great day!

    > kid

    Its not about "feelings" its about the path of least resistence :-)

    Good debate anyway!

  8. #47
    WallStRunoff
    Guest

    WallStRunoff: Re: if it aint broke dont fix it....

    > No DOUBT that this subject doesn't matter.
    > But discussions and arguments are sooo much
    > fun, regardless of the topic.

    > (Just as a random personal note, probably to
    > WallSt, please forgive my diatribe of
    > "ploppies" or
    > "civilians" or whatever. I didn't
    > mean to give the impression that only
    > non-APs piss me off; I don't discriminate
    > like that. EVERYONE pisses me off. I hate
    > everyone equally. This was just one random
    > issue out of many to explode over.)

    No worries, I'm not personally invested in this either. We're all like minded here people in here: 1 part nerd, 1 part adventurer. I'm just in love with ploppies I guess - they're my lifeline. Every time I see them hit their eights, I bless them for the kind donation to the AP fund.

  9. #48
    BJ_Player2004
    Guest

    BJ_Player2004: I like the term

    I picture someone with no preparation "plopping" onto a stool with a load of cash, ready to play (at least in their own mind). Beginners are not ploppies if they are planning to learn at least BS. Good BS players are not ploppies either. A ploppy is someone who learned everything he or she knows about the game from listening to the other ploppies and dealers (99% of whom are ploppies too) and acts like he knows all there is to know about the game.

    These people annoyed me when I first played, but I've learn to use them to my advantage. They are easy to chase off by messing with their superstitious beliefs. They are easy to befriend for cover, as they are starved for companionship. And they are useful to burn cards until the deck goes positive. Finally, they are the ultimate source of our income. After all, we draw money from the casinos. BS players barely pay the light bill, and beginners don't bet much. What's left? The ploppy who would NEVER double a soft 18 against a 6 or hit his 12 against a 3 -- that's who. Let him smoke and drink his life away and bitch when someone splits 9s against a 6 -- at least until the cards turn positive! Then the cards are ours!!!

  10. #49
    gorilla player
    Guest

    gorilla player: Re: I like the term

    > I picture someone with no preparation
    > "plopping" onto a stool with a
    > load of cash, ready to play (at least in
    > their own mind). Beginners are not ploppies
    > if they are planning to learn at least BS.
    > Good BS players are not ploppies either. A
    > ploppy is someone who learned everything he
    > or she knows about the game from listening
    > to the other ploppies and dealers (99% of
    > whom are ploppies too) and acts like he
    > knows all there is to know about the game.

    > These people annoyed me when I first played,
    > but I've learn to use them to my advantage.
    > They are easy to chase off by messing with
    > their superstitious beliefs. They are easy
    > to befriend for cover, as they are starved
    > for companionship. And they are useful to
    > burn cards until the deck goes positive.
    > Finally, they are the ultimate source of our
    > income. After all, we draw money from the
    > casinos. BS players barely pay the light
    > bill, and beginners don't bet much. What's
    > left? The ploppy who would NEVER double a
    > soft 18 against a 6 or hit his 12 against a
    > 3 -- that's who. Let him smoke and drink his
    > life away and bitch when someone splits 9s
    > against a 6 -- at least until the cards turn
    > positive! Then the cards are ours!!!

    I really don't use that term much myself. My wife will tell you that I like the classic, and well-understood term "A**hole".

    An example. We were at an Alabama home game last year, sitting on an upper section right above the walkway. An idiot drunk (a**hole) decides our section is not loud enough. This was a fairly close game, with Alabama having the ball right in front of where we were sitting. This guy is standing up, berating the fans for not being loud enough, etc. Finally, enough is enough.

    I stand up, and tell him (about 10 feet away) "I bought our tickets to see the game, not to see your fat a** parading up and down in front where I can't see, berating the fans." He sits down. But his wife walks over and here we go "you didn't have to call my husband a fat a**. He knows he's overweight and he's sensitive about it, and there was no sense in ridiculing him about it." My wife looked up, thought a second, and told her "look, we bought our tickets to see the game, not to see your normal-sized a** parading up and down in front where can't see." Was never more proud of her. Of course she gave me hell for starting it later. Tells me "I can't take you anywhere without you getting into trouble."

    That is the kind of attitude I think of when I hear the term "ploppy". I don't care if they can even total up their cards, unless they take 30 seconds to make a playing decision after consulting their friend, their strategy card, the dealer, and anyone else with advice. I do like the game to move along at a reasonable pace. But if they are obnoxious, by berating players that make correct BS decisions (hit 12 vs 3 for example) then that grates on my nerves. I don't care if he hits a 16 vs a 2, or stands on a 12 vs a 10, but being obnoxious really detracts from the game, and the mood of the table. I don't mind making their life miserable by splitting 10's, doubling a-8, or randomly playing 2 hands to "alter the flow of the cards". A drunk a**hole is worse. And a drunk a**hole that chain-smokes is even beyond that... For them I really do have little sympathy. Whether it is at a pool table,a blackjack table, or at a football game.

    Just my $.02 of course... If they leave the attitude at home, they can play as stupidly or intelligently or slowly as they want. If they play too slow for me, I'll just move. But when they bring that attitude to the table with them, they really deserve whatever they get. And often enough, they get what they deserve. If my wife is with me, I sometimes do too.


  11. #50
    Radar
    Guest

    Radar: I Guess I Wasn't a Ploppy, Afterall

    > Ploppys are more than merely NEBs (Negative
    > Expectation Bettors), they are by definition
    > obnoxious.

    I never knew the real meaning of "Ploppy" until now. I always thought it was other players at the table other than APs.

    I used to think of myself as a Ploppy in my pre-AP days; however, you just set me straight...in order to lay claim to that title, one has to be "obnoxious". That leaves me out. I have never been one to scold another for their play or offer suggestions, even when asked.

    You don't know how well you made me feel, Parker. Since "ploppy" is such a despised word around here and other AP sites, it's nice to know that I wasn't one in my previous life, afterall.

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BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.