Multimillion dollar team wins?

**blacksheep** · 01-09-2013, 12:50 PM

Not too long ago I was talking to a fellow blackjack player that I see fairly frequently at a particular casino about the deterioration of games in many venues lately, including the one we were at. He is not a counter but a good bs player who prefers to stick to double deck games. Anyway, he blamed the shifting conditions on a very large win by some high stakes counting team playing in the northeast somewhere. I think he mentioned Detroit but I can't recall. It was supposedly a multimillion dollar take at one particular casino 2 or 3 years ago.

Does anyone know anything about this? He said he had read about it online somewhere, but I've never come across anything about this. Are wins of that magnitude even possible anymore?

**shadroch** · 01-09-2013, 01:03 PM

There were several multi-million dollar wins by a single player in Ac not too long ago. I believe you took advantage of a loss rebate the casino offered him.

**blacksheep** · 01-09-2013, 01:05 PM

He was talking about a team win though.

**Cincinnati Kid** · 01-09-2013, 01:07 PM

A multimillion dollar win by one team at one Detroit casino via card counting? No way. I would put the odds at 2-1 against that the total losses attributable to card counters for all 3 Detroit casinos combined would not exceed $3 million in any one of the last 3 years.

The threat to casino's bottom lines from straight counting simply does not exist. Real AP's should be thrilled so much time and effort is wasted "fighting the last war".

**shadroch** · 01-09-2013, 01:07 PM

If one person could do it, why couldn't a team? So , to answer your question- wins of this magnitude are certainly still possible.

**moo321** · 01-09-2013, 02:35 PM

I guess it is possible, theoretically. What's table max at the Grand high limit, $50,000?

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 01-09-2013, 03:41 PM

In mid 2011 there was a team winning session of $900,000 in Indiana.

Enuf said.

**Aslan** · 01-09-2013, 07:16 PM

lI heard by word of mouth that a team was recently caught cheating a casino out of several million in a team blackjack play that involved collusion with the dealer. The team had been winning big bucks for days, but they got greedy, the way it was told to me, and went for several million in one session. The gaff, if it was reported to me correctly, was that the dealer would set the cards in his pick up and key card those sequences (I don't know what the sequence of cards was, but I assumed clumps of aces and tens and maybe a little more design than that). He would then do a series of false shuffles that would retain the original order of the cards in question. When the cards were coming out, he would signal his confederates who were the players at the table. I have no details, whether it was a shoe game or a pitch game, but it was finally uncovered by the EITS and examination of the tapes. I suppose when the key card appeared, it would be possible for the team to take just enough hits so that the next round where the large dollars would be bet would be a sure thing.

**Aslan** · 01-09-2013, 07:28 PM

Here may be the con that these guys were talking about, and it's really old news-- we heard about it last year, but at that time I didn't know what exactly the form of dealer collusion was. http://www.10news.com/news/video-rev...-cheating-ring There's a pretty good video explanation of the technique used.

**zengrifter** · 01-09-2013, 08:01 PM

User is banned, content deleted.

**Cincinnati Kid** · 01-09-2013, 08:40 PM

So again I reiterate that the existence of a team making "a couple million" from ALL of the 3 Detroit casinos strictly via CARD COUNTING (not cheating, not hole-carding, not sequencing, not e#$%^$%) in a single year did not happen in the last 3 years, will not happen, and has likely never happened.

**moo321** · 01-10-2013, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by Cincinnati Kid

So again I reiterate that the existence of a team making "a couple million" from ALL of the 3 Detroit casinos strictly via CARD COUNTING (not cheating, not hole-carding, not sequencing, not e#$%^$%) in a single year did not happen in the last 3 years, will not happen, and has likely never happened.

I'll agree it's unlikely, but how is it impossible? Like I said, I think MGM will take $50,000 a hand, so that's only 20 units to win a million. The other casinos will probably take pretty big action in high limit.

**Cincinnati Kid** · 01-10-2013, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by moo321

I'll agree it's unlikely, but how is it impossible? Like I said, I think MGM will take $50,000 a hand, so that's only 20 units to win a million. The other casinos will probably take pretty big action in high limit.

Have you ever tried to play anonymously in the MGM HL room? (Or just observed the structure of the room? its isolation? the door monitor that frequently cards upon entry?) How about shipping cheques rated but as a new player? The scrutiny would be intense for anyone that was not a verified degen betting more than $1k/spot combined with bet variation. Counting is just too easy to see or "think" you've seen which is really all that is necessary with today's paranoid, ignorant, sweaty casino management. A sad reality is that folks in the gambling business don't get fired for "what might have been" ie. opportunity cost, but get reprimanded frequently for "allowing" big wins against the house even when they are the result of a ploppy's positive variance. Casino's shattered P/L is all the evidence an objective examiner would need see to witness the results of driving away action for action's sake yet the practice continues unabated.

FWIW, examine Caesars Entertainment (formerly Harrah's) gambling income with and without the Horseshoe brand. Then ask which properties in the Caesars network have the best rules, highest limits, generous comps, and intelligent tolerance? You would think someone inside Caesars Inc. would have asked that question many moons ago and emulated the Horseshoe brand philosophy. The ignorance of the suits is a double-edged sword.