Advantage/Disadvantage of Heads up Play: Preferences of APs

[greg16394]

I cannot understand why I am so poor in heads up play. I have 'FEAR' of doing it now. Just a few times of winning memories left over.
Stanford Wong, in his "Professional Blackjack", recommend to play heads up. Norm did so in his "Modern Blackjack".
Don Schlesinger, in his "Blackjack Attack", said it not reommended beause can't sit out. I don't like to play alone, because I have to eat all bad cards until count reaches high enough. But, I do not avoid play alone when count got high enough like TC +3, 4. Some times, other players leave the table when count high, then I whistle silently, and keep playing alone. However, results are so poor, and lose every hands no matter what the bet is. What is wrong with me ? Anybody have same experience ? Other's preferences ? (I like to play with 2-3 players at the table.)

[paymypush]

I prefer heads up but it puts a cramp in my wonging out strategy, so I'm okay with another player or two as long as they don't agonize over every decision. My ideal preference? Heads up with a re-shuffle every time I stand up from the table. Hey, I can dream can't I?

There's nothing wrong with you if you're not changing your strategy. You're merely getting your results, good or bad in a shorter amount of time when playing heads up.

[21gunsalute]

Not too long ago I played heads up in a double deck game. In 4 consecutive shoes all 8 aces came out and they all ended up in the dealers hands. I don't know what the odds are of that happening, but it happened. I lost most of bankroll in a 24 hour period that included this fiasco. What I'm trying to say is sh*t happens, even if your playing a good game and playing to the best of your theoretical advantage. Heads up is probably the best way to go, but it can also be the most volatile.

[Al Mucous]

Heads up is probably the best way to go, but it can also be the most volatile.

Yes yes, good/important point. Stronger playing styles or stronger situations generate more favorable betting situations per hour and that means higher hourly variance. It also means fewer hours to the long run and greater EV per hour.

The heads-up game should be swingier. The fact that it's swingier is some indication that the original poster is playing correctly.

[PinkChip]

Not too long ago I played heads up in a double deck game. In 4 consecutive shoes all 8 aces came out and they all ended up in the dealers hands. I don't know what the odds are of that happening, but it happened..

Well, provided that all 8 aces come out (despite of limited penetration, e.g. when pen is 75% you expect only 6 aces on average), and provided that you play only one hand at a time, I would say that the dealer gets the same amount of aces as you, so every ace has a 1/2 chance of landing at the dealer. The probability of the dealer getting all 8 aces should therefore be (1/2)^8 = 1/256 = 4/1024, that is about 4 out of 1000 or 0,4%, which is indeed very unlikely, but can of course happen.

[simple man]

I like 2 hands when playing head-on, particularly in pitch games. This is trickier, however, as proper betting becomes difficult 2-handed. In 2-deck games, heads up, I like to START with two hands, 2 units. That way you can go up or down as the count designates, and since these games are typically no mid-entry, you can play 1 or 2 hands as the count designates.

Heads-up is a different animal, and depending upon penetration, yields a slight difference in theoretical EV, be it more or less. With better pen, EV is less, though the difference is slight. Point is, head-on play IS more volatile.

[bigplayer]

Heads up is always best. Other players hurt you in + counts more than they help you in - counts and they slow your game down. If your goal is to play 1000 hands of blackjack that night why on earth would anyone want to play with other players. Pitch games are really bad with other players as it significantly increases the percentage of off the top rounds (right after the shuffle). You will always win more faster playing alone. Every player I know who is has a higher than expected win rate has it because they shop for penetration and find times of the day to play when they can get heads up or nearly heads up conditions.

[Baberuth]

bp, Do you have a plan for leaving the table or taking a break in minus counts? During heads up I would think wonging out too often would draw atention. I have wonged out at a local store with an excuse and came back an hour later, but if in Vegas I would have another table or store to visit.

[21gunsalute]

He said 4 shoes in a row. That's (1/256)^4 = 1/4,294,967,296.

1 in 4.3 billion is pretty slim odds. That doesn't even consider the unlikely nature of seeing all 8 aces before the shuffle in each shoe. Do you think you were cheated? It sounds awfully fishy.

That was my first thought. But I don't know how they could have cheated. An automatic shuffler was used.

[PinkChip]

He said 4 shoes in a row. That's (1/256)^4 = 1/4,294,967,296.

1 in 4.3 billion is pretty slim odds. That doesn't even consider the unlikely nature of seeing all 8 aces before the shuffle in each shoe. Do you think you were cheated? It sounds awfully fishy.

Oops, yes, I overlooked the "4 consecutive shoes".
That's 1 / 2^32 and the same chance as predicting one specific memory cell
in a 32-bit address space (4 Gigabyte memory) where a hardware failure will take place
:-)

[greg16394]

Yes yes, good/important point. Stronger playing styles or stronger situations generate more favorable betting situations per hour and that means higher hourly variance. It also means fewer hours to the long run and greater EV per hour.

The heads-up game should be swingier. The fact that it's swingier is some indication that the original poster is playing correctly.

Not only heads-up game but also multi-player game is swingier than flat bettor.
Speed of swing in heads-up game is a lot faster than multi-player games, naturally.

Magnitude (width) of swing depends on the spread you take. When you have adavantage, raise bet (to max). It's not guaranted to win, though, if you win it, your BR growth. This is my conclusion thru this thread and others in this forum.
I made $10k BR and purchased CVCX. CVCX direct me to start at $3 table to adapt 0.025% RoR (which I specified, of course).
I achieved 10% of initial BR in Feb this year and 15% in March. I was a little proud of that performance. I thought it might be possible to grow my BR by 100% in a year. (Who knows ?) Decided to raise bar (initial wager) and spread (aggressively). Wiped out all the beans collected in two months (April & May). Maybe by just unlukies or natural swing.
I want to adjust betting level and spread to keep right on the track. I will collect beans again.

Al's comment helped me a lot. "The fact that it's swingier is some indication that the original poster is playing correctly."
This forum is so great. Thanks for everybody.

[bigplayer]

bp, Do you have a plan for leaving the table or taking a break in minus counts? During heads up I would think wonging out too often would draw atention. I have wonged out at a local store with an excuse and came back an hour later, but if in Vegas I would have another table or store to visit.

Really depends. If I arrange a reserved table with a good dealer sometimes you just have to grind through a certain amount of the negative counts. If the count goes way negative early in a shoe I just color up and ask for the pit to save my seat and that usually forces a shuffle. I go to the bathroom and get a beverage or a snack and then come back in 10-15 minutes (which would be about the same amount of time I'd have just been sitting there for a whole shoe heads up putting out min bet after min bet). Of course if I need to pee or want to go to dinner I always end my session on a negative count and if there are other players I will find reasons to just sit out the second half of bad shoes. If I'm at a normal non-descript game I start looking for a dealer who is shuffling or about to shuffle when the running count gets to around -12 Zen and then change to the other table at -14 Zen running count. I will play 2 or 3 different tables and then go to a different pit or go walk around for 10 minutes and then come back and try again until I get my quota of big shoes for that joint.