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Thread: Bettie: Article on Advantage Gamblers' Civil Liberties

  1. #1
    Bettie
    Guest

    Bettie: Article on Advantage Gamblers' Civil Liberties


    Link to the R-J story below, along with some very distressing photos. Everyone who steps foot into a casino, advantage player or not, should read this article and see these pictures! Pass it on, please.

    Bettie



  2. #2
    methodman
    Guest

    methodman: WHAT A FACT FILLED STORY..

    > Yes, Bettie that's the game they detain,harass,and have even killed. Oh, we have rights,not really they are the kings in there domain.

  3. #3
    qboy
    Guest

    qboy: Re: Article on Advantage Gamblers' Civil Liberties

    Interesting. So, legally speaking, am I allowed to defend myself against being physically held? I'm proficient enough to handle two guys blocking the exit...8 might be a stretch.

    > Link to the R-J story below, along with some
    > very distressing photos. Everyone who steps
    > foot into a casino, advantage player or not,
    > should read this article and see these
    > pictures! Pass it on, please.

    > Bettie

  4. #4
    DD'
    Guest

    DD': legal but unwise

    Better to make them appear to be the bullies in court. If you put up a fight you never know what it will look like to the judge or jury. Very bad if the tape shows you hitting them first. Best is to appear to calmly attempt to exit while making no threatening or aggressive jestures of any kind. The guards in my case accused me of purposefully bumping in to them 3 times in an attempt to escalate the situation. Of course, the tape shows nothing of the kind.

  5. #5
    onetoomany
    Guest

    onetoomany: Re: Article on Advantage Gamblers' Civil Liberties

    > Interesting. So, legally speaking, am I
    > allowed to defend myself against being
    > physically held? I'm proficient enough to
    > handle two guys blocking the exit...8 might
    > be a stretch.

    DD' is right, a lot of these security guard types are just looking for an excuse to get physical, and you touching them in *any* way is the provocation they need to start some whup-ass on you. These guys are not the smartest in their class, their job is boring most of the time, you don't want to be the one to provide some excitement for them. And in Nevada they get away with a lot more than you'd normally think possible in America.


  6. #6
    ET Fan
    Guest

    ET Fan: Damn fine article!

    And it's about TIME this is getting some token press.

    And then people wonder why I view casinos as the enemy. One guy on bj21 free even opined they offer beatable games in an effort to be fair!

    ETF

  7. #7
    Sun Runner
    Guest

    Sun Runner: So how does ..

    .. Cagno, the personal trainer, actually get convicted of disorderly conduct when the one filing the complaint admits to being a stooge and never actually reading the complaint in the first place?

    Based only on the strength of the article itself, it seems impossible. Please tell me there is more to his story than this.


  8. #8
    ODAAT
    Guest

    ODAAT: Wow! When will it stop?

    "The complaining witness testified in court, though, that she was told to file the complaint, which actually was written by a police officer, and that she had not even read the complaining document."

    Not until it reaches the US Supreme Court! Obviously NV is not interested in participating in the Constitution of the United States of America.

    Thanks to this post and others like it I can be aware and informed if and when something like this happens. I keep Bob Nersesian's number on me at all times on every trip.

  9. #9
    Bettie
    Guest

    Bettie: Spreading the Word / Know Your Rights!

    As a player, I understand that this is what is done and that the casinos think we have no rights.

    As a player, I am also very happy to see this abuse of authority being given press time. Some of you remember the Channel 8 (LV) story last year regarding advantage players in which Viktor (among others) was interviewed. This particular story as it appears in the actual newspaper was a big deal. The lead photograph took up 1/3 of the page, and it was on the front page of the In Depth section. There's no way you could miss it.

    As a player, I am also very aware of my rights. Mostly thanks to RGE's own Blackjack and the Law, which I read long before I came to work for RGE. This is a very important book for anyone who plays blackjack, especially advantage players.

    I wanted to make sure that this article was seen - by us, our family and friends, so that the next time you're sitting in a casino and a Mr. Cagno yells for patrons to call the police as he's being lead away in handcuffs, someone ACTUALLY CALLS THE POLICE! The next Mr. Cagno could be me, and I want to make sure that there are people out there who will help me.

    Bettie

  10. #10
    Bettie
    Guest

    Bettie: Doesn't Always Work!

    > Best is to appear to calmly
    > attempt to exit while making no threatening
    > or aggressive jestures of any kind.

    Of course, that doesn't always work. In the article, James Grosjean states that a guard at the Imperial Palace "put his hands on my chest and he blocked me from leaving." James hadn't even played one hand in this casino and was subject to physical violation of his rights to enter and exit a business. Anyone who's met James knows that his physical presence is hardly overwhelming, and certainly doesn't warrant any sort of manhandling to control.

    Simply Outrageous!

    Bettie

  11. #11
    Bettie
    Guest

    Bettie: Re: Damn fine article!

    > And then people wonder why I view casinos as
    > the enemy . One guy on bj21 free even
    > opined they offer beatable games in an
    > effort to be fair!

    Don't even get Viktor started on this one! He has a whole schpeel (SP? - I'm not Jewish) about how the casinos aren't even in the business to gamble anymore. If they were, they might actually attempt to gamble with us. Instead they shuffle up, decrease pen, kick us out, etc. Casinos are in the business to make money. Period. If they wanted to gamble, they'd take their chances with us. Instead, we use "handles" on forums, put on an act in the casinos, and try to remain out of the limelight - all in our attempt to play a perfectly legal game of counting cards.

    My apologies to Viktor, whose rant is much more eloquent than my writings here.

    Bettie

  12. #12
    Bettie
    Guest

    Bettie: More to the Case?

    > .. Cagno, the personal trainer, actually
    > get convicted of disorderly conduct when the
    > one filing the complaint admits to being a
    > stooge and never actually reading the
    > complaint in the first place?

    > Based only on the strength of the article
    > itself, it seems impossible. Please tell me
    > there is more to his story than this.

    Well, he is appealing that conviction, which seems likely to happen, considering he sued El Cortez for a settlement. Regardless of what the laws states, most people view a settlement as an admission of guilt. His lawsuit against three police officers is still pending, so it certainly seems as though there is more to his story.

    You're right, though, Sun Runner. It is ridiculous that a person can be convicted based on a complaint that never occurred. That's why it's important to know exactly what you can and cannot / should and should not do under the law.

    Please, everyone, educate yourselves before you get in this same kind of situation. Read Blackjack and the Law, ask questions on these forums, and stay up to date on the laws affecting your rights as an advantage player.

    Okay, I think I've had enough of my own ranting by now. Thanks!

    Bettie

  13. #13
    Coug Fan
    Guest

    Coug Fan: Its getting as bad as playing in a third world cou

    Plying in Nevada is almost getting to the point of gambling in a third world country. Armed bodyguards might be an answer. This is unreal.

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