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Thread: Mr. Ed: Cover

  1. #1
    Mr. Ed
    Guest

    Mr. Ed: Cover

    1. How do you "cover" going from a max bet at the end of shoe to a min bet at the beginning of the next shoe.

    Does bullshit like this work: "Geez, I got carried away at the end of that last shoe. I lost a ton of money [or] I got real lucky, I better lock in my winnings. I'll start small and see how lucky this shoe is."

    I would hate to put money on the table at a disadvantage if I don't have to.

    I'm looking for practical advice - what do you actually do?

  2. #2
    Bert Nommel
    Guest

    Bert Nommel: Re: Cover

    I don't worry about it. I think it is natural to bet small to see if the shoe will be "hot." Suppose you do bet big, say $500.00 on first hand. Dissadvantage for most 6 deck shoes is - 0.5%, or $2.50. Your hourly expectation far exceeds this, so leaving the bet out is not too expensive.

    Bert

  3. #3
    brian
    Guest

    brian: Re: Cover

    > 1. How do you "cover" going from a
    > max bet at the end of shoe to a min bet at
    > the beginning of the next shoe.

    One thing is get into the habit of pulling all your chips in at the end of every shoe. You can make it look like your making room for the dealer to lay out the cards for the shuffle(multi-deck of course). Another is get up to go to the "can"(taking all your chips with you) and ask for a marker, and this only works if your not tracking shuffles of course(unless your teaming and your buddy who stays to watch the shuffle). Another way is if your attracting attention already with 5 greens out for the hand before the shuffle, pull your entire bet in(same as above) while the dealer shuffles and then put out five red. If you have a spouse handy they could come by and grump at ya for overbetting. A sudden attack sneezes could occur, breaking your focus, some of the small tear open pepper packs in your pocket can help if you can't fake 10 sneezes in 10 seconds. Your drink that just showed up could suddenly be a rum and coke when you ordered coke on ice, causing a small stroke on your part. You can suddenly get heartburn and try and bet some tums on the first hand of the shoe in the confusion, don't forget to pop a chip into your mouth and spit it across the table to complete this one. Complain about the complex shuffle, such as "what the heck is the dealer doing to the cards?" and "I'm seeing double there are 6 piles of cards on the table." then claim your confused and seeing spots from the fancy shuffle. Wear a convention badge and the shuffle winds down have it drop onto the floor, pass on the hand while recovering it. If you smoke a cig. could be dropped, if you don't smoke and anyone is nearby you can play avoid the smoke cloud. Also if someone is leaving the table during the shuffle you can decide to switch to a different seat at the table as the first hand plays out.

    One of the best way I've found to do this and get the pit critters away from the table during the shuffle(so I can simulate the suffle with my chips) is to engage anyone and everyone in conversation the moment the last hand of a shoe is played(i.e. before the shuffle really starts). After several shoes of this the pit critters may run away from the table the moment the cut card shows.

  4. #4
    Coug Fan
    Guest

    Coug Fan: Re: Cover

    I used to feel compelled to make a comment to the dealer in these situations, but after getting some great advice and watching ploppy behaviour, I see that the ploppies hardly ever feel the need to make a comment when they change their bets significantly.

    Unless it is a single deck game, I will never leave a max bet out after the shuffle. If necessary, I use this as an opportunity for a bathroom break, answer a cell phone call (always leave it on the self-ring feature so it just requires one finger), or just pull back my chips and recount them. If I am coming off a high count shoe, I probably just won or lost alot of $$. It looks natural to reassess where you are at after a big swing. Of course, if you really feel uncomfortable, you could use it as a stopping point.

  5. #5
    AB
    Guest

    AB: Compromise-take the middle ground

    keep quiet, pull back your chips, put out another bet after a suitable pause, that bet will appear to be very similar to your previous bet but will contain many lower denomination chips and appear to have the same NUMBER of chips as your previous bet on the last hand.

    And, don't blabber about why you are doing any of this!

    AB

  6. #6
    Parker
    Guest

    Parker: Just do it

    > 1. How do you "cover" going from a
    > max bet at the end of shoe to a min bet at
    > the beginning of the next shoe.

    > Does bullshit like this work: "Geez, I
    > got carried away at the end of that last
    > shoe. I lost a ton of money [or] I got real
    > lucky, I better lock in my winnings. I'll
    > start small and see how lucky this shoe
    > is."

    > I would hate to put money on the table at a
    > disadvantage if I don't have to.

    > I'm looking for practical advice - what do
    > you actually do?

    One thing I have found very instructive is simply to watch other players in a casino. In particular, watch those who vary their bets a lot, but who are obviously not counting.

    A couple of things you may notice:

    1. They often pull their bets back at the end of a shoe. They want to see if the next shoe will be "hot" before they start increasing their bets.

    2. They don't feel any need to explain to the rest of the table and/or the pit what they are doing. Doing so is a sure "tell" of a rookie counter.

  7. #7
    Mr. Ed
    Guest

    Mr. Ed: Re: Cover

    Thanks for the advice, guys.

    Now that I think about it, it looks very natural to "take inventory" during the shuffle and go back to a "more reasonable" small bet. No (blabbering) explanation necesary.

    Thanks for helping me to NOT blow my cover!!

    > 1. How do you "cover" going from a
    > max bet at the end of shoe to a min bet at
    > the beginning of the next shoe.

    > Does bullshit like this work: "Geez, I
    > got carried away at the end of that last
    > shoe. I lost a ton of money [or] I got real
    > lucky, I better lock in my winnings. I'll
    > start small and see how lucky this shoe
    > is."

    > I would hate to put money on the table at a
    > disadvantage if I don't have to.

    > I'm looking for practical advice - what do
    > you actually do?

  8. #8
    Contrail
    Guest

    Contrail: Re: Cover

    > 1. How do you "cover" going from a
    > max bet at the end of shoe to a min bet at
    > the beginning of the next shoe.

    A large bet at the end of the shoe and a small bet at the beginning of the next shoe is just two rounds. I know that this a little mundane and already clear to everyone. Nevertheless, I think it's important to keep in mind in this sort of discussion. Imo, it's not the bet variation over two rounds or even a few rounds that is problematic. One reason that short sessions are effective is because while an observer can make an assessment of your play given a small data set, the confidence level in that assessment is low.

    So I don't think there is a set answer as to what your action at the beginning of a shoe should be in the absence of other information. Whether you play-all or do some type of table hopping such as Schlesinger's 'White Rabbit', whether the previous shoe was your first or third and your bet variation over the previous shoes, whether you exhibit other flags that enable an observer to assess your abilitiy with greater confidence, what your betting level is, the specific casino, and even the extent to which care about being sent packing may all influence your decision.

    Sometimes the best choice might be to leave. Alternatively, if you've adopted a 'White Rabbit' style, you might adjust your departure points to require a higher shoe value to stay. If you've adopted a play-all style you might accept an increased variance by varying your bets more in neutral situations. There are a host of other options. The upside to all this, imo, is that it provides you with opportunity to devlop your own style so that you are less like all the other counters that the casinos have seen.

    In passing, I would say that I don't personally think that action of other ploppies is particularly useful. So I would not suggest that you don't worry about it simply because others do it. Neither do I think that single and double deck cover bets carry over that effectively to shoes. So simply a large bet off the top that is not part of a more cohesive approach would not, imo, be particularly effective.

    Sorry if this is not quite the "what you do" response that you were looking for.

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