curious: Question on Pontoon

[curious]

I found a rare Pontoon game with very good rules but I am not sure whether it is playable.

6D
S17
ES10 & ESA
Natural pays 2 to 1
5 cards pays 3 to 2
777 pays 3 to 1
DOA
DAS
RSA
Double or hitting RSA allowed
Surrender on split/resplit hands allowed
Triple/redouble original bets on 4 cards
Hitting after double allowed.

Dealer takes all stand-off/pushes.

Can I beat this game with basic strategy ? Or is there any counting system that can be used to beat this game?

Any input is appreciated.

[Daily Dubble]

> I found a rare Pontoon game with very good rules but I
> am not sure whether it is playable.

I don't know anything about the game, but the Wizard of odds has a BS and indicates the house edge ranges from close to zero up to as high as .49%. Edge tilts toward player with more decks, too...

Wizard of Odds BS

[pontoonplayer]

some questions more to tell the edge:
do 5 cards always pay for the player? or does a dealer?s 5 card trick beat the player?s 5 card trick?
does a 5 card pay at once even if dealer has A or 10? or can dealer beat your 5 card with a natural?
this is a big difference in EV.
can you double 4 cards if you have 11 or less, i.e. a secure non-bust hand? or do you just get a free card and dealer pays your tripled bet 3/2 ?
player?s edge can be between -0.5% and more than +1%, need the details.

> I found a rare Pontoon game with very good rules but I
> am not sure whether it is playable.

> 6D
> S17
> ES10 & ESA
> Natural pays 2 to 1
> 5 cards pays 3 to 2
> 777 pays 3 to 1
> DOA
> DAS
> RSA
> Double or hitting RSA allowed
> Surrender on split/resplit hands allowed
> Triple/redouble original bets on 4 cards
> Hitting after double allowed.

> Dealer takes all stand-off/pushes.

> Can I beat this game with basic strategy ? Or is there
> any counting system that can be used to beat this
> game?

> Any input is appreciated.

[curious]

When both having 5 cards, the higher side (<21) wins the game.

5 cards trick beats Natural.

Redouble (triple) allowed at 4 cards ( any points ),if double down initially at 2 cards.

I read somewhere that house edge for taking all pushes is about -8.86%, Can all the favorable rules turn the edge towards the player?

Thank you for the response.

Cheers!

> some questions more to tell the edge:
> do 5 cards always pay for the player? or does a
> dealer?s 5 card trick beat the player?s 5 card trick?
> does a 5 card pay at once even if dealer has A or 10?
> or can dealer beat your 5 card with a natural?
> this is a big difference in EV.
> can you double 4 cards if you have 11 or less, i.e. a
> secure non-bust hand? or do you just get a free card
> and dealer pays your tripled bet 3/2 ?
> player?s edge can be between -0.5% and more than +1%,
> need the details.

[curious]

Actually I expected more responses than this... :-(
considering the number of experts here...

I wonder if this is due to Industrial protection...,or selfishness ??

[Don Schlesinger]

> Actually I expected more responses than this... :-(
> considering the number of experts here...

> I wonder if this is due to Industrial protection...,or
> selfishness ??

I'll ask Katarina to stop by and have a look. Then, we'll see what you have to say about the resident experts! ;-)

Don

[AFPlayer]

[Katarina Walker]

First of all, we need to sort a few things out. There are two types of Pontoon in the world (which causes a lot of confusion):
1. A British variation of Blackjack, played with regular 52-card decks, with strange rules. There are different varieties. The WizardofOdds has a strategy for one of them, where you must draw on hands less than 15.
2. Spanish 21, played with no hole card (i.e., all the 10-spot cards are taken out, giving 48 cards per deck.) This type of Pontoon is played in Australia, Malaysia, and elsewhere in the world, in a couple of obscure locations.
So, does your game have 10-spot cards, or not?
If it has no 10-spot cards, I will help you out on the game, and give you everything you need (in due course). If it DOES have 10-spot cards, it is not my game, and I can't help you. It would be better for a BJ expert to help you.

[curious]

> First of all, we need to sort of few things out. There
> are two types of Pontoon on the world (which causes a
> lot of confusion):
> 1. A British variation of Blackjack, played with
> regular 52-card decks, with strange rules. There are
> different varieties. The Wizard has a strategy for one
> of them, where you must draw on hands less than 15.

No, you are not forced to draw at any point.

> 2. Spanish 21 played with no hole card (i.e. all the
> 10-spot cards are taken out, giveing 48 cards per
> deck.) This type of Pontoon is played in Australia,
> Malaysia, and elsewhere in the world, in a couple of
> obscure locations.
> So, does your game have 10-spot cards, or not?
> If it has no 10-spot cards, I will help you out on the
> game, and give you everything you need (in due
> course).

All the Tens are there, but player loses all pushes.

If it DOES have 10-spot cards, it is not my
> game, and I can't help you. It would be tetter for a
> BJ expert to help you.

Its ok,.... your response deeply appreciated.

Cheers!

[curious]

> I'll ask Katarina to stop by and have a look. Then,
> we'll see what you have to say about the resident
> experts! ;-)

> Don

Thanks Don ! :-)

[curious]

> 5 cards trick beats Natural.
>

CORRECTION : 5 cards trick loses to Natural

[curious]

> Both. The game is beatable and has been beaten for
> mnay years. Those who know how to beat the game has no
> reason to disclose.

My apology for misunderstanding the policy of some experts here...

Some experts only come to this site to talk about their barring experience,their annual winnings and to compete the number of countries they have played!

I may get better responses if I offer to contribute some percentage of my winnings, or offer to buy the counting system and playing strategy.

[BJTr]