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Thread: spanishplayer: beatable spanish blackjack?

  1. #1
    spanishplayer
    Guest

    spanishplayer: beatable spanish blackjack?

    I found a game with spanish decks and special rules.

    6D, with A,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,J,Q,K, without 10s.
    dealer does not take a hole card, you lose all against a bj, but any 21 pays at once, including against dealer?s picture and ace (i.e. dealer does not check for bj first). any BJ, 678, 777 and 21 with 5 or more cards pays at once 3/2. the bonus is always 3/2, no matter if with 5, 6 or more cards.
    surrender against 10 is early, no surrender initially against ace, but surrender after double against any card.
    double on 3 or more cards and surrender after double, including against ace. any 21 pays at once after double or split, too, including against picture and ace.
    i think surrender on 3 cards, but i am not sure, was not able to test it yet.
    i think hit aces after split possible, but not sure.
    maximum is 50$ and maximum 3 boxes per player.
    is the game better or worse than "normal" spanish blackjack? shall i double 11 against ace?
    thanks in advance

  2. #2
    Katarina Walker
    Guest

    Katarina Walker: I need more information about the rules.

    Hi. I'm Katarina Walker, author of "The Pro's Guide to Spanish 21 and Australian Pontoon".
    Your game, a NHC version of Spanish 21, sounds similar to Pontoon (not to be confused with British Pontoon, which is played with normal 52 card decks.) It is played throughout Australia, and also Malaysia.
    To avoid confusion, I will call surrender after doubling "forfeit", and call surrendering before doubling "surrendering".
    X means any ten-valued card.
    To give you the house edge of your game (and the correct strategy) and tell you how beatable it is, I need more information from you:
    Is your game H17 or S17? Pontoon is usually H17.
    If you double on a soft hand, does the Ace count as 1 or 11 (as in the United States), or does it count as 1 only (as in Australian or Malaysian Pontoon)? (For example, if you double on soft 18 in Pontoon, you are doubling on 8, not 8 or 18. This is why we never double on soft hands in Pontoon.)
    How many hands are you allowed to split to?
    Are you allowed to resplit Aces?
    You NEED to find out whether you can draw on split Aces. This means that you can hit and double down after splitting Aces. Pontoon usually has no draws on split Aces, which is expensive.
    Being allowed to surrender on three cards (i.e. after you have hit a two-card hand) sounds very unusual. (Are you sure you don't mean forfeit?) Can you surrender after splitting? Please confirm that you can surrender a 3-card hand (two cards followed by a hit, not a double) against ALL up cards except Ace, and that against X, you ALWAYS get half your bet back, even when dealer BJ. You can easily test this out as it would be correct to surrender any 3 card 16 against X, assuming you always get half your bet back.
    You say "double on 3 cards". Are you saying that you can only double if you have three or more cards, i.e. you are not allowed to double on your initial 2-card hand?
    I assume you are allowed to double after splitting?
    For your initial 2-card hand, you say you cannot surrender against Ace (I am talking about surrender, not forfeit), but can surrender against X. What about against 9 and below? (This becomes relevant if card counting)
    (Incidentally, early surrender against X, but no surrender against all the other up cards is the Macao surrender rule in BJ.)
    Please confirm that if you have split to two or more hands (with < 21 on each), and the dealer gets Blackjack, you lose all your bets, not just one bet and the busted bets.
    Note that the strategy for your game has some significant differences to that of regular Spanish 21. You will have to clarify the rules for me before I can give you the complete correct Basic Strategy.
    However, I can tell you right now that if you lose both bets to a dealer natural, DO NOT double 11 against X or Ace (if you count cards, the count sometimes gets high enough to double 11 versus X or Ace, but never in basic strategy).
    To find out some of the rules that apply to less common hands (like Ace-Ace), it might be easier just to ask the pit boss (but you must seem stupid - no jargon!!!). Better yet, phone them, so they don't know who you are.

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