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Thread: Mark: Has anybody else lost in the Czec Republic.

  1. #14
    merry.b
    Guest

    merry.b: won un prague

    we did won in prague. it was 18 month ago. didn't see anything wrong.

  2. #15
    Mark
    Guest

    Mark: Some more details about shuffles

    I went back and looked again.
    I was not concentrating on grab sizes too much the first time.

    The grab sizes are closer to half a deck at the casinos I was talking about before.
    The unplayed cards are taken from the shoe and placed on top of the discards. They arn't split up.
    They all use slightly different shuffles but with one common theme. Lots of striping.

    I'll descibe the one at the Airport Royal which has really good rules and penitration.
    Its pretty simple ...
    It starts off (F and a tiny bit of E are the dicards)
    F
    E
    D
    C
    B
    A

    It is split into

    C F
    B E
    A D

    About half a deck is grabed from each pile and rifled together, pulled apart again and then stipped a few times.
    So you end up with

    A+D
    B+E
    C+F

    The ones in town are a little more complex as I descibed before.

    But common theme is lots of stripping.

    At first I thought the clumping was only because of a poor shuffle on fresh decks but after watching more, It seems to remain even after many shuffles. It is just a little less noticable because the cards are not in any kind of suited sequences any more.

    As I was saying before cards of the same rank seem to stick close together. Kings follow kings fours follow fours..
    I'm not sure if this is above normal frequencey though. It could just be my imagination.

    If you have any theorys I'll like to hear them.

    Thanks ...

    > Always a good sign!

    > Absolutely correct!

    > "Something is rotten in the state
    > Etc."
    > How exactly do they break into 6 piles?
    > This sounds like too large a grab size to
    > me. Are you positive tht it is 52 cards EACH
    > grab or 26(more probable)
    > This has no bearing on the segment dilution
    > just the sequencing( another subject!)

    > Does this "clumping" (sorry
    > D.S)also occur once the decks have been in
    > play for some time?

    > I need to know more about what the dealer
    > actions are when the cut card is dealt at
    > the end of the shoe and also what he does
    > with the cutoffs.

    > Please try to name each segment a,b,c etc
    > with "a" being the one deck seg.
    > at the bottom of the discard tray before the
    > dealer breaks in any way.

  3. #16
    Mister M
    Guest

    Mister M: Re: Some more details about shuffles

    > F
    > E
    > D
    > C
    > B
    > A

    > It is split into

    > C F
    > B E
    > A D

    > About half a deck is grabed from each pile
    > and rifled together, pulled apart again and
    > then stipped a few times.
    > So you end up with

    > A+D
    > B+E
    > C+F

    > The ones in town are a little more complex
    > as I descibed before.

    > But common theme is lots of stripping.

    The stripping has NO effect on the dilution!

    I thought that you said this was a two pass?

    There are many ways to verify this shuffle without losing.The following is a simple method:

    Count the first and fourth decks dealt. After the shuffle you describe these will marry to form the TOP two decks offered before the cut.

    Let's say that a=-5 and d=-3. The top two will become -8 and assuming a balanced count the bottom 4 MUST be +8.

    Cut a half deck from the bottom or the minimum that thay will tolerate. When this seg.has been played start counting and only flat bet. After your two decks have been played the count should be -8 but with errors -5/6 will do nicely.

    If the count is any positive,please LEAVE.

    It would be prudent to verify further and maybe track 2 or 3 shoes in this manner.

    A dishonest casino deserves to be out of bussiness so shout it out loud once you are sure.

    I will state however that I always track a new game before playing to "verify" and that I have never to my knowledge played against a dishonest game anywhere in the world.
    IMHO the reputable chains and even the smaller hotel casinos that I often frequent do not need to cheat.The rules and pen.are as bad as the ploppies.

    BTW, If this casino is playing straight you should be able to absolutely murder this shuffle!


  4. #17
    Geoff
    Guest

    Geoff: Re: Some more details about shuffles

    > There are many ways to verify this shuffle
    > without losing.The following is a simple
    > method:

    > Count the first and fourth decks dealt.
    > After the shuffle you describe these will
    > marry to form the TOP two decks offered
    > before the cut.

    > Let's say that a=-5 and d=-3. The top two
    > will become -8 and assuming a balanced count
    > the bottom 4 MUST be +8.

    > Cut a half deck from the bottom or the
    > minimum that thay will tolerate. When this
    > seg.has been played start counting and only
    > flat bet. After your two decks have been
    > played the count should be -8 but with
    > errors -5/6 will do nicely.

    > If the count is any positive,please LEAVE.

    > It would be prudent to verify further and
    > maybe track 2 or 3 shoes in this manner.

    Good point Mister M, a competent shuffle tracker should soon be able to gauge whether the game is being shuffled fairly assuming the following as well :-

    In your example, whereby you should finish with a -8 count, I would also be suspicious if the count continually went up and down in extremes. For example, 1st deck +20 then second deck -28, which would still give you your expected total. This may add weight to the tapered cards theory.

    Best regards

    Geoff

  5. #18
    ET Fan
    Guest

    ET Fan: Just saw this thread ...

    No self respecting cheater would use something so exotic as "clumping". That's very weak. There are a thousand stronger gaffes, though the no hole card rule makes it less likely. Read Forte's book.

    Naturally, we *expect" the TC to wind up positive in a positive shoe. It's only when the running count continues to rise at deep penetrations several shoes in a row, when suspicion of shorting becomes a factor.

    ETF

  6. #19
    Orson
    Guest

    Orson: Re: Some more details about shuffles

    > As I was saying before cards of the same
    > rank seem to stick close together. Kings
    > follow kings fours follow fours..
    > I'm not sure if this is above normal
    > frequencey though. It could just be my
    > imagination.

    > If you have any theorys I'll like to hear
    > them.

    Again, this resembles me a theory about different card dimensions. And that is what always happened to me at Royal airport: tens follow tens and low cards follow low cards. It should be pretty easy to shuffle tens and non-tens separately for the cheating dealer.

    Regards,
    Orson

  7. #20
    Mark
    Guest

    Mark: Where did you play

    Where did you play ?
    How long was it for and how many units did you win ?

  8. #21
    Mark
    Guest

    Mark: If not clumping then what ?

    I'm not in the Czec Republic anymore but
    this thing is still bugging me.

    I just can't see how some of the games there can possibly be fair.
    Some of the small places must get about 5 customers per day. They couldn't be in bussiness with a 3% edge. They must know they are going to 100% of the peoples money. They all run to the same formular. A tourist turns up loses all his money qickly and then walks of wondering how such bad cards could have come up.

    To look at the game everything seems in order.
    All the cards are there. The shoe looks pretty normal and the cards seem to square up against the shoe after a shuffle.

    Do you have any idea about how they could be doing it ?.

    > No self respecting cheater would use
    > something so exotic as "clumping".
    > That's very weak. There are a thousand
    > stronger gaffes, though the no hole card
    > rule makes it less likely. Read Forte's
    > book.

    > Naturally, we *expect" the TC to wind
    > up positive in a positive shoe. It's only
    > when the running count continues to rise at
    > deep penetrations several shoes in a row,
    > when suspicion of shorting becomes a factor.

    > ETF

  9. #22
    Garry Baldy
    Guest

    Garry Baldy: Re: If not clumping then what ?

    I lost badly at Admiral, won a lot at Savarin and got even at Henry. But the sample was small.

    Luck.

    Garry Baldy.

  10. #23
    Orson
    Guest

    Orson: Re: If not clumping then what ?

    Garry, how was your opinion about Henry? Nothing unusual? I have had my worst session ever there. Recently got a report from another friend who lost there badly. Have you played at Royal and Parkhotel Casino? My other friend is ready to swear that Parkhotel Casino was dealing seconds to him - he even made a report to police. Of course, the case ended up with nothing. But he said he was able to see dealer lifting the first card and dealing underneath - the cards obviously were marked.

    Regards,
    Orson

  11. #24
    Garry Baldy
    Guest

    Garry Baldy: Re: If not clumping then what ?

    I lost a little at Royal. I noticed nothing unusual. But it means nothing because I not tried no catch any cheating and my session was very short. They [resented me a bootle of champaign for three sevens.

    And I have not visited Parkhotel. So my Prague experience means nothing. I was there mostly for beer drinking. I played only few hours at total.

    Luck.

    Garry Baldy.

  12. #25
    yoda disraeli
    Guest

    yoda disraeli: Re: Has anybody else lost in the Czec Republic.

    >hi yes you lost in prauge !!!! and i know why !!!!!!!! i worked there in one of the mentioned casinos and they do cheat , and vrey well i must admit..... the blackjack is fixsed buy either shaved cards or the second card.... in roullte either magnetis in the wheel or the stud moves or pins in the wheel.....
    so yes you where cheated!!!!!!!! if you want to now more mail me [email protected]...........

  13. #26
    Mozart
    Guest

    Mozart: Re: Has anybody else lost in the Czec Republic.

    > so yes you where cheated!!!!!!!! if you want to now
    > more mail me [email protected]...........
    Your email doesn't work. Is it because you are crook?

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