Csm with off the top advantage

**21gunsalute** · 07-18-2013, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by Bjshufflemachin

What is the problem ? Just put for exemple 2x100 at 0 and 2x500 at +1 and 5 in negative
21gunsalute, what you told me make no sense to me.
Nobody serious here.

We're all serious here...you're the one who can't be serious. We've all told you not to waste your time counting against a CSM, and you keep DEMANDING that we tell you how to do it. Nobody else here is stupid enough to attempt something so stupid. So when you ask a stupid question, and keep persisting in asking that stupid question, and then demand an answer to your stupid question what kind ofanswer are you going to get?

**Rudy** · 07-18-2013, 10:21 AM

The only person whith a problem here, is you BJSM, you are so annoying, you don't want to hear. You are just gambling, You just don't have to play against CSM's, go find a dealt shoe. Take 6-8 decks and ask a friend to shuffle-non-stop while you playing, then when 2 decks have been dealt ask your friend to put back in his hands the dealt cards, you will notice immediately what "people with problems" tryin to tell you. We were all beginners once. You should read more about the game, there are a lot of books around, you can start with Modern Blackjack from Norm, is located in BJResources on the top of the page. Is my humble advice, but again, please don't call stupids indirectly to forum members, they're just trying to save your money...

I think this should be moved to the disadvantage forum.

Rudy.

RS · 07-18-2013, 10:36 AM

Put it this way, a typical 6-deck player would play a game with 1.5 decks cut off at the worst. They won't even go near a 2-deck cut off 6-decker. You're trying to play a game with 5.5 or maybe 5.0 (at the best), cut off. Variance is bad enough with good pen.

**Bjshufflemachin** · 07-18-2013, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by RollingStoned

Put it this way, a typical 6-deck player would play a game with 1.5 decks cut off at the worst. They won't even go near a 2-deck cut off 6-decker. You're trying to play a game with 5.5 or maybe 5.0 (at the best), cut off. Variance is bad enough with good pen.

Thanks you for your answer UK-21...

For the others, you treat me like an idiot ? 90% of yours should be beginners.
I Will answer for those ones :
A team JUST FLATBETTING such a game can make millions after few years.
It's a game with off the top advantage !!! Are you serious when you tell me that 4/6 is bad??? Return in yours books please but don't poluate my post !! You are afraid about variance ? DON'T PLAY BJ!! I'm a pro and want advices from pros who know a little more about one2six.
I know somes pros who already play succefully csm, that's not a question of beginners.
Is there any pros here ?

**Hsiaodi** · 07-18-2013, 01:22 PM

How's is game with advantage off the top?
At +1 you barely have any advantage. If this gams is consistently paying you then go ahead and play. If you're a pro as you claim. Then you should know how to calculate true count on the spot. If you can calculate tc, then what is the problem?

**seriousplayer** · 07-18-2013, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Bjshufflemachin

Hi, i recently visit a casino with player's edge off the top but csm, one2six shuffler master, (6 decks S17 DAS ENHC Full ES)
Edge is about 0,11%
Some dealers just wait 1 round before putting back the discard into the csm, some others don’t wait and put back during the round, but also I know some dealers where they wait 2 decks even more before putting it back. I’m pretty sure it can be profitable, espescially with good rules ? but I don’t know exactly how to count it, when to reset RC etc …
Is there any counting system better than other for counting a CSM ? or Does it exist some different strategy for CSM ?

With an edge of .11% off the top with CSM is not much. It is almost a cut even game. However, there might not be an advantage within the games. There might be offers that you can take advantage of like cash back, meals, beverages, free rooms to further the edge of the games. Try using rebate losses.Use hand interaction techniques. Use team play to increase your earning. A CSM that put every round back into the CSM there is no way to beat this game with card counting. Even if the dealers wait two decks before putting the cards backs into the CSM there is no card counting system strong enough to beat games with 2 deck played with 4 deck cut off out of 6 decks being played.

The only strategy I could suggest to you with this condition is play prefect basic strategy. Whatever your bet is you will have an edge of .11%. Other professional player in this forum might have better advices.

**Hsiaodi** · 07-18-2013, 03:01 PM

I stand corrected. Didn't see the rules.

**seriousplayer** · 07-18-2013, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Tthree

I hate to be the one to break it to you but the house edge on the game you described is -0.08%. That is a great game but counting against a CSM doesn't work. Once the cards are inserted into the machine you must assume they can come out on the next round. I have heard people say that it can't be until the next round but I have no way to confirm this. It does have a slim advantage off the top.

The rules for the games he describe was 6 decks S17 DAS ENHC Full ES. Using the Qfit Blackjack Advantage calculator I got an advantage of .14 off the top. How did you come up with -0.08%?

**seriousplayer** · 07-18-2013, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Tthree

Blckjackinfo.com house edge generator. HE of -0.08 is player advantage of 0.08

I see where the difference came from.

**Bjshufflemachin** · 07-18-2013, 03:59 PM

Are you serious when you tell that no card counting system can beat a 2/6 with my rules ?
I believe to dream when i see the skills of this forum's members.
Please just buy cvdata work it out and come back later.

ONE TIME again, i'm just asking some informations about how the new one2six work (buffer...) TO PEOPLE who know it.
I don't need people who just come to tell me if it's a good idea to play the game, I CAN do this !!

Please don't post for nothing ! You have the chat to talk

**seriousplayer** · 07-18-2013, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Bjshufflemachin

Are you serious when you tell that no card counting system can beat a 2/6 with my rules ?
I believe to dream when i see the skills of this forum's members.
Please just buy cvdata work it out and come back later.

ONE TIME again, i'm just asking some informations about how the new one2six work (buffer...) TO PEOPLE who know it.
I don't need people who just come to tell me if it's a good idea to play the game, I CAN do this !!

Please don't post for nothing ! You have the chat to talk

Yes, I am saying no card counting system is strong enough to beat a 2/6 blackjack (4 deck cut off) game given the fact that it is a CSM with very bad penetration. I am serious that is why I am called seriousplayer.

**Bjshufflemachin** · 07-18-2013, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by seriousplayer

Yes, I am saying no card counting system is strong enough to beat a 2/6 blackjack (4 deck cut off) game given the fact that it is a CSM with very bad penetration. I am serious that is why I am called seriousplayer.

Then you should change your name...Every card counting system is SIMILAR, there is just some a bit better for shoe and other for pitch etc ... But they all get the money.2/6 with csm or shoe is the SAME, and i'm sorry to tell you another Time that it's BEATABLE and not so bad with my kind of rules.Do you understand that , in the long run, a game with top advantage is even beatable and positive EV just with FLATBETTING ? So how can you tell you that's 2/6 is UNBEATABLE ? Perfect roulette is Unbeatable ....