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Thread: Csm with off the top advantage

  1. #14


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    3% is a small number, but it's not nearly as small as the percentage of casino games in the world that are crooked. It is entirely possible that you were cheated in both of your CSM sessions, but the probability, even after taking into account your playing results, is negligible.

  2. #15


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    I would appreciate that. The problem is, it is hardly to detect if cheating takes place with such obscure machines. And even if I could prove that, it would be of little value. In contrast to e.g. Nevada which has a known Gaming Control Commission, I have never heard of anything like that in Europe. It is even hard to get the game rules here - in contrast to the US, there is often no sign at the table. I had to ask explicitly for every detail in Switzerland and the employee seemed astonished that someone wants to know the exact rules. In Spain, it was even worse. Had to ask some sort of pit boss, which got a small paper brochure (only 2 pages) with rules. These were only printed in Spanish, but I could see how to split ("separar") and double down ("doblar"). Found no surrender and the casino crew could not speak English (or pretended to). It's completely stone age here, so I don't trust anything. Will keep out of casinos here from now on and save my time and energy for visits in the US (hopefully a completely different experience I am looking forward to).
    Last edited by PinkChip; 05-17-2013 at 01:58 PM.

  3. #16


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    Somebody could tell me how to count a csm ? when to EXACTLY reset my hilo count ?

    Thanks

  4. #17


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjshufflemachin View Post
    Somebody could tell me how to count a csm ? when to EXACTLY reset my hilo count ?

    Thanks
    Here's a wonderful PDF that Norm made. http://www.qfit.com/How_to_create_a_forum.pdf
    "Everyone wants to be rich, but nobody wants to work for it." -Ryan Howard [The Office]

  5. #18


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    This seems like an awesome game for cover...I would play this every so often after wonging out etc.

  6. #19


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    Why "don't" ?
    I want to play it, just I don't know exactly how to count it accurately, I believe there is a buffer of 9 cards in the one2six, when to reset my RC ? when the machin begin to make a noise ?

    Thanks you for your help

  7. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    So they have 8 decks in the machine. The buffer holds 9 cards then shuffles. The TC will be the RC/7.75 if you get a second round. Maybe if all the cards in the first round are low cards you might have a small edge. I mean small. The rest of the time you are at a disadvantage. Knock yourself out but don't expect to be playing with an advantage overall and perhaps ever.
    it's 6 deck, with 1 round of 7 boxes we can get ~21,6 card+9 cards SO it's about RC/5,5 even little more
    We can get TC of +1 and +2

    What is the problem ?
    Everybody is JUST here to criticize ? Nobody can just help people who wants to put serious work ?

    Thanks you for members who will be able to help me to do the things the better.

  8. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjshufflemachin View Post
    it's 6 deck, with 1 round of 7 boxes we can get ~21,6 card+9 cards SO it's about RC/5,5 even little more
    We can get TC of +1 and +2

    What is the problem ?
    Everybody is JUST here to criticize ? Nobody can just help people who wants to put serious work ?

    Thanks you for members who will be able to help me to do the things the better.
    You asked the question and we responded. You're being criticized because your question was ridiculous to begin with...and then you keep right on insisting that you need help counting what everyone told you (and common sense should tell you) is an uncountable game! If you want to attempt to count against a CSM then by all means do so, but don't expect to get the blessings of the masses here. You've been given the straight poop here, and apparently you just don't like what you're hearing, but that's not our fault for telling the truth. Go to some voodoo or fantasy forum if you want another answer.

  9. #22


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21gunsalute View Post
    You asked the question and we responded. You're being criticized because your question was ridiculous to begin with...and then you keep right on insisting that you need help counting what everyone told you (and common sense should tell you) is an uncountable game! If you want to attempt to count against a CSM then by all means do so, but don't expect to get the blessings of the masses here. You've been given the straight poop here, and apparently you just don't like what you're hearing, but that's not our fault for telling the truth. Go to some voodoo or fantasy forum if you want another answer.
    I know if it's a good or bad game. I can simulate, I don't need somebody who tell if it s good or no.
    I'm asking a simple question for those who know the answer , that's is to say :
    If the dealers put back the cards after each round , the cards cannot be reshuffle instantly (we still see the cards on the machin )
    So i just ask WHEN to reset precisely my RC if for exemple the dealer put back after each round or after 2 rounds or after 1 Deck ....

  10. #23


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjshufflemachin View Post
    I know if it's a good or bad game. I can simulate, I don't need somebody who tell if it s good or no.
    I'm asking a simple question for those who know the answer , that's is to say :
    If the dealers put back the cards after each round , the cards cannot be reshuffle instantly (we still see the cards on the machin )
    So i just ask WHEN to reset precisely my RC if for exemple the dealer put back after each round or after 2 rounds or after 1 Deck ....
    Okay, then wait until you see the same cards reappear and then you'll know for sure to reset your RC, unless the same cards appear from one of the other 5 decks. Or just count out 312 cards to reset your RC, assuming that they haven't been shuffled, as obviously the clumps of cards should remain more or less the same. Just make sure when you get a high RC you have your max bets out. I'd advise a 50-1 spread or better.

  11. #24


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    If you can sim 290+ cards for every round almost instantaneous, you should write a nifty program that google for you how a csm work....

    Even it is +2 tc, how much are you welling to wager? There won't be any kind of ramp, because +3 will be almost nonexistent.

  12. #25


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    What is the problem ? Just put for exemple 2x100 at 0 and 2x500 at +1 and 5 in negative
    21gunsalute, what you told me make no sense to me.
    Nobody serious here.

  13. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjshufflemachin View Post
    I know if it's a good or bad game. I can simulate, I don't need somebody who tell if it s good or no.
    I'm asking a simple question for those who know the answer , that's is to say :
    If the dealers put back the cards after each round , the cards cannot be reshuffle instantly (we still see the cards on the machin )
    So i just ask WHEN to reset precisely my RC if for exemple the dealer put back after each round or after 2 rounds or after 1 Deck ....
    You don't reset the count, you keep a separate count for each "latent" round that you believe exists (ie the number of rounds you believe will be dealt before the cards are re-inserted have a chance of being dealt out again) and net them off. So for example if you believe the latency to be two rounds, and the round before last has a RC of+8, and the last -2, you'd have a net RC of +6 - which with six decks in the shuffler will just about cancel out the HE. If the next round produces an RC of -3, you have a net RC of -5 - and so on and so forth . . . .

    You can see from this that you'd need two successive pos RC counts totalling +12 or more to have a small advantage, and then it would only last for one, possibly two hands, and then be diluted away. People are correct when they say that trying to identify an advantage against a CSM is a complete waste of time, returns wise, where cards are returned at the end of each round.

    If, as in a casino I visited in the UK this year, the dealer is allowed to let the equivalent of a deck build up in the discard tray there's scope to count in the normal manner, with the final RC being good for two hands (if you believe this to be the level of latency) after the cards are inserted back into the shuffler. You'd need to net the final RC with the count of the first round after the discard is cleared which might possibly improve a pos count further or dilute it down. This assumes six decks in play.

    A far simpler solution to the whole problem is to play a shoe dealt game.
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