What it would take to go full time

[KJ]

KJ-

Actually your answer was exactly what I was looking for. I didn't know whether my experience in simulation of about 3 months of play with little or no earnings was refelective of what a real and skilled AP player might see and the answer is yes. When ou are new, you don't know how much of a result is due to extremely bad variance over the short term versus bad or inexperienced play. Then you wonder how bad your experience was versus what would be considered the normal course of business for an experienced player. If a person goes in with expectation of multiple month losses they tend to be less likely to get in over their head and/or plan for it. If a person goes in thinking yes there are ups and downs but doesn't understand how up or how down or how long you might be down, I think they are likely to become a statistic themselves. See the post re- my second bankroll has been wipe out. Reading these posts might keep someone from being in the position of that poster, more importantly that someone might be me!!


KJ, Shoefly, Zerg, TThree thanks for really valuable answers. Ouchez, If I could find a woman who met your criteria, she'd probably be about as attractive as last years pair of tennis shoes and I'd rather make a living the old fashioned way!!

Your thoughts concerning being as prepared as possible for any and all possible situations is a good way of thinking, however based on my own experience I gotta warn you there is a big difference in thinking you are prepared for a long losing and/or non-winning stretch and the experience of actually going through them. Losing day after day, week after week, month after month, can really play with your mind. It will make you question everything you know or think you know to be true. These are the times you will discover if you really have the discipline necessary to play the game. And I was rather 'lucky' in the respect that both my prolonged non-winning periods came on the heals of extreme positive result periods, which gave me even more of a cushion to work with.

I don't like to encourage people to take this 'full-time' player route or discourage them if they are considering it. Just share some of my experiences to hopefully help and provide some insight they might not otherwise consider. In the end they should make whatever decision is best for their situation and circumstances. But I must say, your plan to jump from simulation play into full-time play is ill advised. That's like jumping several levels at once. Why not begin actual play on a part-time basis? Build your bankroll and experience at the same time. A part-time career, supplementing your income can ease the stress of these long non-winning periods as well, because you aren't putting all your eggs in one basket.

[shadroch]

I can live on 50k a year. Teach me the ways of professional blackjackisms and bankrolls.

First, I would suggest you learn to cut your living expenses in half. Its not what you bring in that matters. Its what you have left after expenses. Cutting your expenses is the best way to give yourself a raise.
Why do you think you would need $60,000 in expenses for a year?
If you want to learn about managing a bankroll, this is where you start.

[Ouchez]

Better yet, find a woman who loves YOU. That way she doesn't give it all away to slots.

You really do not have to give it all away on slots if you have discipline and know what slots to play, figure in the comps and you can easily be ahead with a nice fun lifestyle.

I have a former teammate who had moved to Vegas and is in the exact situation I wrote about, and has been for the last several years.

Life is usually what you make of it.

Stay thirsty my friend!

Ouchez

[Daggers]

$50k a year is easy to cut down on. Especially if you live alone. My uncle lives on around 10 grand a year. Be cheap. Always use coupons and don't buy something unless you need it.

[RWM]

KJ did you remove one of your posts or did I see it in another thread? I think there is actually quite a bit of luck involved here. Notice that KJ started out winning considerably before hitting his losing streak. Do you think you would have continued if you had started out 30k in the hole? I have known quite a few players who started out on bad losing streaks and quit the game. Actually, I was one of them, but fortunately a friend convinced me to give it another try.

[Bentley]

I lost something here also. Was reading a post and now it's gone.

[PonyPrincess]

Yeah he or a mod must've deleted the post where he very generously offered his exact #'s from 2010-2011. It's definitely for the best as that type of information shouldn't be on an open forum for a number of reasons.

[RWM]

Yeah he or a mod must've deleted the post where he very generously offered his exact #'s from 2010-2011. It's definitely for the best as that type of information shouldn't be on an open forum for a number of reasons.

I'll bite, what reasons? I fully understand if KJ wants to remove it because it is his personal info, but I would see no reason for a mod to do it.

[PonyPrincess]

Just give it some thought on why you wouldn't want your INCOME posted on a public forum. ESPECIALLY why you wouldn't want it on what kind of swings you had in what months when your location is already know if you're an AP. Hopefully you can come up with something!

Anyway, this is an awesome thread and I definitely agree with whoever said you should try it out in a real casino first part-time before even considering doing it for a living!!

[White Guy]

Long break even or negative periods are completely normal. So are nice wins. You cannot play full time if you need to make X amount of dollars per month to pay your bills for that month. You will end up busting.

[Ouchez]

I would think KJ gave his post a second thought and decided, rightly so, to remove it. No need to speculate any further.

Ouchez.

[Anton Chigurh]

Are we still in the period during which KJ resolved to cut down on saying too much, or can we declare that period at an end?

I could go full-time as an AP. No way would I do it. I have the entrepreneurial streak and the cash, but not the other necessary qualities. There's a flavor of discipline here that is difficult to describe: "hard-working" or "dedicated" don't do justice to it.

I admire those with the discipline and moxie to be full-time. It requires a certain combination of qualities including an entrepreneurial streak and an ability to keep cool under fire over hundreds of hours each year, plus a sense of perspective during both band and good times.

I don't know if being full-time necessarily is more work than other professions, but it's a different kind of hard work from most things. I hope never to find out what it's like.

Advantage play has had the side effect of changing my career path. Since the subversive concept of using my own capital to earn a living entered my impressionable mind, I have not been the same.

[KJ]

Yes RWM, I did remove the post. I only put the figures out there because it was such a strong example to address the original poster, Oneoffthecount's concerns. I initially wrote the post using units instead of actual dollars, as I have mostly done for years in describing results, but in light of the resent discussions we have had defining the term “unit” and the fact that I have adopted the definition used by Big Player, Yourself and Josh, it only 'muddled' my attempt to make the point to the poster, so I went with actual dollars. Once it served it's purpose, I saw no reason to leave it out. Sorry for the confusion.

I have addressed the subject that you bring up before RWM. I was fortunate that my 2 worst and longest losing periods to date have followed extraordinarily successful periods. Had this not been the case it would not have knocked me out of the game, but it would have forced me to back track a little and resize my bet and spread down. Because I had a little extra cushion to work with, I didn't have to do that, although was very close to making that decision last fall.

Even having been fortunate enough to have these losing periods come at as good a time as there could be to have a prolonged losing period, I didn't handle either particularly well, which is something that concerns me. As I have said on a number of occasions, losing for weeks and months on end, is mentally challenging. It really plays games with your mind and you begin to have doubts about everything you are doing and everything that you think you know. Learning how to deal with losses is by far the most difficult part of the game. We all knows it's an up and down game and losses happen. Losing sessions. Losing days. Losing weeks. But when it turns into months, with the emphasis of that 's' (plural), it really is something else. It is difficult to be prepared for that. Bottom line: learning your count to the point that you can play as error free as possible, whether a level 1 as I use of a level 2 or 3 as my friend Tthree's argues for is the easy part. Number of Index plays...30, 50, 100, 200....easy. Developing your act or style of play....piece of cake. Learning how to lose...now that's an accomplishment.

Anton: interesting edit. You're a funny guy.