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Thread: What it would take to go full time

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    What it would take to go full time

    I've looked at this allot and don't think I would be able to be a full time AP for a long period of time or unless, I win the lottery or gain a large inheritance. Doing my best to Calculate what start up cost it would take to really make a living AP.

    I started with my base income needs, to pay the bills, then added travel expenses at $100 for ever 1000 hands played or about $10 per hour at 100 hands per hour. Given travel expenses, at a minimum I'd need to have an EV of $42. Now here is the rub, after playing 60K hands of simulated black jack, my total win was about $7783 and my estimated travel expenses were $6000. Not that you can expect a result on 60k hands to be representational they are just an example of what might happen and hence what you have to be prepared for. According to CVCX, this result is in the bottom 14% for a person playing perfectly to stragey using my most common game conditions and HI-Lo. Ok, so if 60K hands = 10 hours of play 5 days a week for 12 weeks, I'd have basically broken even against expenses after 3 months. So I"d need some number of dollars more than 3 months of expenses in the bank to pay my credit cards and mortgage, I'm figuring six months. I've seen a few post from my fellow noobies, regarding size of bank roll etc. For me it breaks out like this.


    Bank Roll to play at .5 Kelly with a $42 EV per 100 hands (1/13 spread -$15 table, HI-Lo Sweet 16 Fab 4, DAS, SR, RAS, S17 Eight Deck with 81% penetration) - approximately $24,400.

    Six months of living personal living expenses. $24,000

    Six months of travel expenses. $12,000. So about 60K to jump in full time. I was hoping to get some feedback from the guys who have actually done this. Do you have periods of 3 or six months breaking even or less followed by other periods of relative boon? If so, in planning, how many months in the bank of living expenses would you recommend in the bank before starting? Am I missing anything? Of course travel expenses and living expenses are unique to the individual, however, each person would need to consider this, correct?
    Oneoff


    I'm not a bad player... I just play cover on every hand!

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    I would recommend a slow transition in the direction of full time play if that is what you want to do. Work a normal job part time to cover your living and even travel expenses. I can't imagine starting from scratch with a small bankroll, trying to build it while withdrawing living expenses.

    I started with a $3000 bankroll about a year and a half ago. I have built it up pretty well, but I paid my travel and living expenses with separate income. I definitely would not have made it if I tried to go full time without my other income.

    Do you have periods of 3 or six months breaking even or less followed by other periods of relative boon?
    For me, it seems like most of the time I am losing or breaking even. Then I have an incredible winning streak.

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    Move to Vegas, houses are cheap and opportunity is abundant. You are also close to other places to play with cheap airfare.

    Find a women with a huge inheritance that loves slots, travel with her as she gets comped for everything your expenses will be nil.

    My best,
    Ouchez

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    T Three, as always, good advice. I'm wondering, as an experienced player, are there actually mulitple month periods where you made very little or less. If a person was considering a full time lifestyle, should they anticipate that a bad stretch can last three months, four months, longer?

    Unfortunately, my life style calc, included just my bills and mortgage, so not allot of flexibility there. I wong out quite a bit when I play. My rule of thumb is if the count goes to minus three, I play until I get two straight losses. Many times I find that the count recovers or even though the count is negative, I win a few hands before loosing two straight. If I loose two straight it cost me thirty bucks to find out. Keeps me from having to exit every other shoe. I'm betting you have a better rule for exiting. I've not tried wonging in but I'm playing around with it on CVCX. I'm a little shy about it, since I hate people joining mid shoe, especially when the count has just gone up. I grumble plenty at them.
    Oneoff


    I'm not a bad player... I just play cover on every hand!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oneoffthecount View Post
    I've not tried wonging in but I'm playing around with it on CVCX. I'm a little shy about it, since I hate people joining mid shoe, especially when the count has just gone up. I grumble plenty at them.
    The ploppy doesn't know the count went up. I don't think they have a clear idea of why they hold their opinions. I recently wonged into a shoe. The player next to me said, "If you're coming in, I'm getting out." Before the next hand could be dealt, another player joined the table, so this guy got back in. Then a relief dealer came on and burned a card. Now the poor guy didn't know what to do.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ouchez View Post

    Find a women with a huge inheritance that loves slots, travel with her as she gets comped for everything your expenses will be nil.
    Isn't this the equivalent to winning the lottery??

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tthree View Post
    A stronger count adds 10 to 15% to your winnings. Bus junkets and such to casinos neutralize travel expenses. Work that transshipping problem. Trim your lifestyle for a while. Take advantage of promos and any boost to EV like smaller minimums or wonging in or out when you have a good disadvantage without much hope of the shoe recovering. It sounds like East Coast games. You should be able to find $10 or even $5 games if you find out the limit rotations of area casinos. A $10 game would make your spread almost 1 to 20 for the same max bet, almost 1 to 40 for a five dollar game.I am not sure what you could get away with.
    PLEASE Tthree! Must you? Lets save the stronger count debate for other situations. If someone is contemplating making a leap to full-time play, there are much more important issues to discuss. Like whether they are prepared financially as well as mentally and BJ knowledge-wise to do so. Trimming lifestyles is good advice though.

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    If you can't live on $50,000 a year, attempting to be an AP is waste of time.
    Let me die in my sleep like my Grandfather.
    Not screaming in agony like his passengers.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by shadroch View Post
    If you can't live on $50,000 a year, attempting to be an AP is waste of time.
    I can live on 50k a year. Teach me the ways of professional blackjackisms and bankrolls.

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by shadroch View Post
    If you can't live on $50,000 a year, attempting to be an AP is waste of time.
    I would say that if you can't make 50K a year, don't attempt to be an AP. For me personally, I would hate to have to ride the emotional roller coaster associated with a card counters lifestyle for only 50K. I would much rather get another job where the income was steady.

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