SP21 EORs

[Cacarulo]

Hi,


I'm looking for Betting EORs for a standard Spanish 21 game. If anyone has already worked them out through combinatorial analysis,
I’d really appreciate it if you could share. I’m not particularly focused on SP21 myself, but I’ve received a few private questions and would like to provide accurate answers.
Thanks in advance!

Sincerely,
Cac

[DSchles]

Do you have Katarina's book? They're on the top of page 52. If not, I'll get them to you.

Don

[Cacarulo]

Do you have Katarina's book? They're on the top of page 52. If not, I'll get them to you.

Don

Hi Don,

No, I don’t have it. Do you know how those EORs listed in the book were derived? By CA or by SIM?
Thanks.

Sincerely,
Cac

[Midnight]

Cac,
If I recall correctly, I got these from Stephen How's site sometime back. Can't confirm how they were determined (SIM or CA) but the H17 EoRs agree with Katarina's in her book.

Game	A	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	X
SP21(H17)	-0.73	0.29	0.40	0.58	0.65	0.40	0.04	-0.21	-0.17	-0.44
SP21(S17)	-0.99	0.31	0.41	0.59	0.73	0.41	0.08	-0.20	-0.13	-0.39

[Maolen]

I found this in my notebook. I don't remember which book I wrote the numbers down from. It's not Katarina Walker's work.

"Spanish 21" 6 deck S17

2 (0.31), 3 (0.40), 4 (0.59), 5 (0.73), 6 (0.41), 7 (0.08), 8 (-0.20), 9 (-0.13), X (-0.39), A (-0.99).

[Cacarulo]

Cac,
If I recall correctly, I got these from Stephen How's site sometime back. Can't confirm how they were determined (SIM or CA) but the H17 EoRs agree with Katarina's in her book.

Game	A	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	X
SP21(H17)	-0.73	0.29	0.40	0.58	0.65	0.40	0.04	-0.21	-0.17	-0.44
SP21(S17)	-0.99	0.31	0.41	0.59	0.73	0.41	0.08	-0.20	-0.13	-0.39

Thanks, Midnight! Your help was very useful.

Sincerely,
Cac

[Cacarulo]

I found this in my notebook. I don't remember which book I wrote the numbers down from. It's not Katarina Walker's work.

"Spanish 21" 6 deck S17

2 (0.31), 3 (0.40), 4 (0.59), 5 (0.73), 6 (0.41), 7 (0.08), 8 (-0.20), 9 (-0.13), X (-0.39), A (-0.99).

Thank you, Maolen. From what I can see, they appear to be the same values Midnight posted for S17.

Sincerely,
Cac

[REKO_Champion]

Zenmaster_Flash used to be an expert in SP21. According to him, EOR for SP21 is:

Game	A	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	X
SP21(H17)	-0.73	0.29	0.40	0.56	0.65	0.40	0.04	-0.21	-0.17	-0.44
SP21(S17)	-1.28	0.40	0.56	0.80	0.96	0.56	0.08	-0.24	-0.16	-0.48

Notice that S17 EOR is very different from what others have stated here.
Source : https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/sh...s_CVData/page3

[Cacarulo]

Zenmaster_Flash used to be an expert in SP21. According to him, EOR for SP21 is:

Game	A	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	X
SP21(H17)	-0.73	0.29	0.40	0.56	0.65	0.40	0.04	-0.21	-0.17	-0.44
SP21(S17)	-1.28	0.40	0.56	0.80	0.96	0.56	0.08	-0.24	-0.16	-0.48

Notice that S17 EOR is very different from what others have stated here.
Source : https://www.blackjacktheforum.com/sh...s_CVData/page3

Hi REKO_Champion,

I realize that there are differences between the various EORs, but which ones are the correct ones? Obviously, if the rules are different, the EORs will also be different.
What rules are used in each case? Ideally, it should be stated: under the following rules, these are the corresponding EORs. It's too simplistic in SP21 to only differentiate between S17 and H17.

Anyway, I appreciate your contribution.

Sincerely,
Cac

[moo321]

I'm getting different numbers from both.


Single Deck, S17 Spanish 21, playing basic strategy, the house advantage is .064%. If you remove an ace, the house advantage is .928%. That gives an effect of removal of the ace of .864%. 2 billion rounds in each sim.


Walker's numbers look closer to being correct, and I suspect the difference may be because I don't have the single deck basic strategy or index plays for Spanish 21 to run in the sim. Because there is no single deck Spanish 21 that I'm aware of.

Spanish 21 Single Deck S17 Basic Strategy.jpg

SP 21 Single Deck S17, One Ace Missing, Basic Strategy.jpg

[moo321]

I'm also going to defer to Katarina Walker's analysis, which tended to be very thorough.


Flash, in the thread mentioned, was insisting that most people should be trying to side count aces in an 8 deck game.

[Cacarulo]

I'm getting different numbers from both.


Single Deck, S17 Spanish 21, playing basic strategy, the house advantage is .064%. If you remove an ace, the house advantage is .928%. That gives an effect of removal of the ace of .864%. 2 billion rounds in each sim.


Walker's numbers look closer to being correct, and I suspect the difference may be because I don't have the single deck basic strategy or index plays for Spanish 21 to run in the sim. Because there is no single deck Spanish 21 that I'm aware of.

Spanish 21 Single Deck S17 Basic Strategy.jpg

SP 21 Single Deck S17, One Ace Missing, Basic Strategy.jpg

Actually, all you really need is the basic strategy, which doesn’t necessarily have to be for single deck. For example, you can calculate the house edge using six decks and a fixed number of rounds—say, forty.
Then, you remove one card at a time, also using forty rounds per shoe. This is done to avoid the effect of the cut card. The indices will come later, after you've developed a counting system that has a very
strong correlation with the simulated EORs.

Sincerely,
Cac

[Gronbog]

Single deck for Spanish 21 doesn't make sense because it would not be possible to achieve the suited or spaded 777 bonuses, including the super bonus.