13 vs 2 H/S and 16 vs 9 surrender indexs on cvcx+cvbj vs BJA

**JesterCW** · 03-23-2025, 07:10 AM

Reb, you're asking good questions and hopefully learning from all these great answers! I've found for myself, as I dive deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole it gets interesting seeing how the numbers came to be. Then generate some of your own and try to understand the theory that's being used to do so. Norm has a great application for this (CVData). Colin and BJA are obviously of a sound mind -- they get ripped on (as anyone does) when they take a share of a market and have an opinion. Norm and the team around here is also of a good sound mind. I, personally, am grateful for this community and that they can take questions like this in stride and provide helpful and kind answers! Rock on. May the variance be ever in your favor.

Edit (just for clarification): The only "market" BJA has tapped into is the space around Blackjack -- and like anyone that is brave enough to put themselves out there -- some folks will always rip on them. (Those folks are silly.) I wish Colin and BJA nothing but the best!

**Norm** · 03-23-2025, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by JesterCW

they get ripped on (as anyone does) when they take a share of a market

I don't know of any "market share" they have taken from anyone.

**JesterCW** · 03-23-2025, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Norm

I don't know of any "market share" they have taken from anyone.

I don't think they have either Norm. My point simply being that when anybody is brave enough to take a position that the public sees, some folks will always disagree with them. I'm grateful for BJA, for you and your software, and for this community in general.

**IDKMyUsername** · 03-28-2025, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Gronbog

To elaborate on this further, here is a sample from my Visual Guide to Index Play (a companion to the THLCCS book) for the hand 16 vs 9.

Attachment 5329

As you can see it's visually a close call whether to surrender or hit at TC=-1. However, using the statistical method provided to us by Dr. Stewart Ethier I was able to resolve the index number to -1. It's a more risk averse play at to surrender -1 than at 0 as well.

I love the visual representation! What program would be needed to generate these kind of charts? I'm guessing CVData?

**Norm** · 03-28-2025, 09:32 AM

I believe he uses his own. CVData charts are like: https://card-counting.com/cvcxonlineviewer3.htm

**IDKMyUsername** · 03-28-2025, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by Norm

I believe he uses his own. CVData charts are like: https://card-counting.com/cvcxonlineviewer3.htm

Does CVData have the option to output just the raw data(like to a CSV)?

**Norm** · 03-28-2025, 09:57 AM

You can right click on the chart and hit copy. When you paste, it pastes either the raw data or the image depending on what software you are pasting to.