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Thread: The thrill of the drill

  1. #1


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    Cool The thrill of the drill

    Hi The Forum

    I'm new here. Thanks for having me.

    I have just installed the Casino Vérité Drills, and as the heading suggests, I'm having great fun. I have one problem though (or actually several according to CV-D ); where I play, we have a set rules, that requires strategies, that is not directly supported by CV-D, and the solution suggested by the software is exporting the strategy from CVBJ (if one doesnt have the license, it can and is allowed to be done from the demo-version), which will create a number/numeric code, and by entering that code in CV-D, the strategies can be imported.

    What's the problem then, you may ask. The problem is, that I only have MacBooks, and CVBJ can't run on that. So my question is:

    If one of you nice people would export the strategies, getting the number(s) and posting it here, would I then be able to enter that in CV-D, or must it be done from the same computer?

    It is most probably the dumbest question in the history of the forum, but for me the answer could range from 'no, ofcourse not' to 'yes, ofcourse' and if it is the latter, and I could persuade one of you to get the number(s) for me, then the strategies I request would be:
    Basic Strategy/KO full/complete High-Low for the rules S17, 8 decks, BJ pays 3:2, dealer peeks on aces, but not on tens (this kind of in between american and european style being the hurdle in CV-D), double on any 2, no DAS, all pairs can be split only once (aces cannot be drawn to), no surrender.

    Thank you Parrotbird

  2. #2
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    The export and import do NOT have to be on the same device. But all of those strategies should already be included in the mobile apps.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  3. #3


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    Cool

    Hi Norm

    Thanks for taking your time to help me out.

    Okay. I must be looking the wrong place then.



    In the ‘Playing strategy’-tab I can choose basic strategy or several counting strategies along with a bunch of indices, and I can choose H/S17, ENHC/default peeking (which I assume is A+T, both because of the origin of the marvellous software, and because of the matching tables), DAS/nDAS, double any number of cards/default double (I assume any 2).


    In the ‘Flash Drill’-tab I can choose the number of decks, but I can’t locate any other settings apart from those (and I would consider it more logical to place ‘peek A, but not T’ along with ENHC and peek A+T, if the choice is indeed given somewhere else). The differences are not gigantic - off (or is on? - as you beyond any doubt already have concluded, english is not my native tongue) the top of my head, I can only think of 11 vs T (hit not dd), and 88 vs T/88 vs A (hit (T)/split (A) respectively).


    Maybe you could elaborate, Norm?


    Thanks a lot


    Parrotbird

  4. #4
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Not sure I understand. If you are playing ENHC, there is no hole card to peek at. If you are not playing ENHC, peeking has no effect on the decisions.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  5. #5


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    As I write in my posts, I am not playing ENHC. Dealer has a hole card, which he/she peeks at, if the open card is an ace. On the contrary he/she does not peek, if the open card is a ten. This affect decisions to the cautious side, when dealer's open card is indeed a ten (fx not splitting 88, not DD 11; which I guess would be a popular choice in the american peek-on-everything-with-a-pulse style). I believe, this cautiousness is not needed, at least not to the same extent, if dealer's open card is an ace (fx now splitting 88, which would most be likely frowned upon in your regular ENHC-joint). So to summarize; different strategy than both american style and ENHC, the only two options in CV-D. But no need to move heaven and earth, I will figure it out.

  6. #6


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    So, you're saying that if the dealer's no-peek ten turns into a natural, you lose all splits and doubles?

    Don

  7. #7


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    Hi Don


    Yes, that is exactly, what I am saying. It of course decreases the expected return to player, and quite predictably almost as much as ENHC. The numbers look approximately like this:

    ENHC: -0,11%
    Divided by card;
    No-peek T: -0,10%
    No-peek A: -0,01%
    Divided by action;
    Doubling (11 vs T): -0,08%
    Splitting (88 vs T, 88 vs A, AA vs A): -0,03%

    The loss comes from both lost doubles, and from lost profit of now-non-doubles, and similarly with splitting.

    In basic strategy it results in these changes:


    Peek T + A (Don) Peek A (Parrotbird) No peek (ENHC)
    11 vs T D.D Hit Hit
    88 vs T Split Hit Hit
    88 vs A Split Split Hit
    AA vs A Split Split Hit

    … and then, I imagine, a myriad of indices, which I would like to know, and that was the reason behind my original question.

    Parrotbird

  8. #8


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    Very clear explanation and presentation of the data. I actually learned something, which I don't get to say all that often! I wouldn't have known that, in ENHC, where the loss in EV to the player is 0.11%, virtually all of that (0.10%) comes from the ten. Surely, considering the plays that are sacrificed, it's easy, by intuition, to guess that the majority is lost to the ten, but I've never seen that value quantified. Nice job!

    So, since the rest of the game plays like normal BJ, it would appear that all you're looking for, in indices, are for doubling 11 vs. T and splitting 8,8 vs. T. There is no index for the latter; you just don't do it! As for the former, I want to consult with Gronbog and/or Cacarulo about a discrepancy we have with a value Wong gives on p. 85 of Professional Blackjack. That index is +4, which differs greatly from the one we give on P. 314, which is +11. I'll get to the bottom of it.

    Don

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    Very clear explanation and presentation of the data. I actually learned something, which I don't get to say all that often! I wouldn't have known that, in ENHC, where the loss in EV to the player is 0.11%, virtually all of that (0.10%) comes from the ten. Surely, considering the plays that are sacrificed, it's easy, by intuition, to guess that the majority is lost to the ten, but I've never seen that value quantified. Nice job!

    So, since the rest of the game plays like normal BJ, it would appear that all you're looking for, in indices, are for doubling 11 vs. T and splitting 8,8 vs. T. There is no index for the latter; you just don't do it! As for the former, I want to consult with Gronbog and/or Cacarulo about a discrepancy we have with a value Wong gives on p. 85 of Professional Blackjack. That index is +4, which differs greatly from the one we give on P. 314, which is +11. I'll get to the bottom of it.

    Don
    Hi Don,

    It seems to me that in the book, you must be using the RA index for this play. The EM index (Hi-Lo) I get is +3/+4 for 6 or 8 decks and +4 for 4 decks.
    In CAC2, there is a +4 difference between the EM index and the RA index for this play.

    Sincerely,
    Cac
    Last edited by Cacarulo; 02-06-2025 at 12:27 PM.
    Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.

  10. #10


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    Thank you! Heard back from Dave that, indeed, +11 is the R-A index. And, the reason for using it that way is that, even so, it ranks a measly 48 out of the 50 in the chart. Were it the +4 EV-maximizing index that Wong provided, it would have virtually no value at all.

    Don
    Last edited by DSchles; 02-06-2025 at 05:52 PM.

  11. #11


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    Thank you! Heard back from Dave that, indeed, +11 is the EV-maximizing index. And, the reason for using it that way is that, even so, it ranks a measly 48 out of the 50 in the chart. Were it the +4 EV-maximizing index that Wong provided, it would have virtually no value at all.

    Don
    You meant RA, not EM.

    Sincerely,
    Cac
    Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.

  12. #12


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    Ugh. Sorry. I'll go back and correct the original.

    P.S. It might have helped if I had read the last full paragraph of page 20 of the book before responding!

    Don
    Last edited by DSchles; 02-06-2025 at 06:17 PM.

  13. #13


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    Just for completeness, my EV-maximizing Hi-Lo index for 6 decks is also +4.

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