Help!

**MsBlakJak** · 12-08-2024, 08:04 PM

First off, THIS IS AWESOME INFORMATION! YES! I'm so excited to start practicing at home now with everything you guys have given me. I think it's a good start. And then further down the road I'm sure I will be looking into getting the software I keep hearing about.

To answer your questions, 5 is equal to 1.5. I don't double. And yes when I say proficient, I mean at counting, clearly not at betting and determining my advantage.
I think you are right, that I stop the casino for awhile and practice at home. I think what killed me is I was playing around with oppositional betting, since Wonging wasn't an option, and I wasn't sticking to a structured betting system. For example, if TC was 2, I would play two hands at 20$ a hand. Then I would go back to one hand when TC was low. Because of limited tables where I go, if I wasn't playing two hands at the time someone wanted to join, I give up my second hand and always play one hand.
And my spread was too small. I was only doing $10-$50 (50 at 5) and in my experience TC rarely gets to 5. As far as bankroll, I go with $1,000.00.

Much respect and appreciation to you guys! I know this sounds corny, but I admire your knowledge, and that you are willing to take the time to help me with my game means so much!

**marriedputter** · 12-08-2024, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by MsBlakJak

And my spread was too small. I was only doing $10-$50 (50 at 5) and in my experience TC rarely gets to 5. As far as bankroll, I go with $1,000.00.

Well, the good news is that you were at a spread that wouldn't likely raise any red flags. This is noteworthy because (and this is just my opinion) your ability to blend in is as, if not more important than, your ability to count. If you start to become a threat, you will need to know when to quit a session, when to come back, how much your lifetime win is, etc. Counting is the science and getting away with it is the art.
You can always improve your game, but you cannot play BJ again once you're banned. Remember that.

**Sidecount** · 12-08-2024, 09:31 PM

The amount you have on you at the casino is not the same as your bankroll. The term Bankroll refers to total amount allocated for your gambling pursuits. Usually 1000x the min bet is considered a general standard so $10,000 in your case mostly.

10-50 spread is not a winning game. That is very very week on a shoe game and at best you aren't winning much.

You also seem to have a misunderstanding of variance. Losing a few bets in a plus count isn't a big deal and happens all the time. Many new counters think plus counts are going to be wildly profitable. They aren't. It is very easy to lose several hands at plus counts and that doesn't mean at all that you are doing anything wrong.

The mechanics of counting at the table is only part of this.

**McSweeney** · 12-09-2024, 07:43 AM

One important question is HOW MANY HOURS OF PLAY HAVE YOU LOGGED? It's possible that you simply haven't played enough to get a meaningful sample size to determine if there's a flaw in your game.

**MsBlakJak** · 12-09-2024, 11:17 AM

You have all given me a lot to think about. And I like it!

Yeah I do know my gains and losses will fluctuate. And I, too, was naive at first and thought just cuz the count was high, I would win. I learned quickly that's not the case and my bankroll needs to be large enough to withstand the fluctuations.

As far as bankroll, I guess I never put together an amount I dedicate for gambling. I have a full time job so the 1,000 I take to the casino is replenishable.

But I'm going to get more organized now. I'm going to practice betting with a bigger spread using the numbers freightman gave me and when I do go back track the hours that I play and establish a bankroll.

Thank you guys all again.

**Cohiba** · 12-11-2024, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by MsBlakJak

You have all given me a lot to think about. And I like it!

Yeah I do know my gains and losses will fluctuate. And I, too, was naive at first and thought just cuz the count was high, I would win. I learned quickly that's not the case and my bankroll needs to be large enough to withstand the fluctuations.

As far as bankroll, I guess I never put together an amount I dedicate for gambling. I have a full time job so the 1,000 I take to the casino is replenishable.

But I'm going to get more organized now. I'm going to practice betting with a bigger spread using the numbers freightman gave me and when I do go back track the hours that I play and establish a bankroll.

Thank you guys all again.

Agree with the plan to practice and the proposed bet spread.

That said I would not play the game you are describing with average (1.5) to poor (2+) penetration. in addition to having a bet ramp you need to understand the expected return on your time, variance and risk. I understand the replenishable br but you need to know upfront how long you will continue to refund the bank after a series of losses - how much are you willing to risk if things go south is a good indicator of the bankroll size you should use to determine risk of ruin. also having a $160 top bet if you bring only bring 1K to the casino is likely to lead to many sessions where you tap out and it won't be unusual to tap out mid shoe.

if this is the only game in your area - I would practice your 21 and Wong only or not play and pursue another Ap skill.

Good luck,

Cohiba

**MsBlakJak** · 12-18-2024, 07:01 PM

The penetration varies by dealer. Some will do 1 deck, 1.5, but they are supposed to do 2.5.
So are you saying I should Wong you when the penetration is poor? Then play even through negative counts if penetration is good?
Also, in my experience, and I have at least a few years of doing this, the True count rarely gets to 5 or even 4 for that matter. Do you find this also? I can play all day, 6 hours and never see the TC be 5. Is that typical?

**UncleChoo** · 12-19-2024, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by MsBlakJak

The penetration varies by dealer. Some will do 1 deck, 1.5, but they are supposed to do 2.5.
So are you saying I should Wong you when the penetration is poor? Then play even through negative counts if penetration is good?
Also, in my experience, and I have at least a few years of doing this, the True count rarely gets to 5 or even 4 for that matter. Do you find this also? I can play all day, 6 hours and never see the TC be 5. Is that typical?

Check this out https://www.blackjackincolor.com/truecount1.htm

Take what I say with pound of salt, but if you are a regular where you play and are playing 6 hour sessions a good chance something off with your game. It extremely difficult to play a winning game and not get heat if you playing long consistent sessions at the same place.

**Cohiba** · 12-19-2024, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by MsBlakJak

The penetration varies by dealer. Some will do 1 deck, 1.5, but they are supposed to do 2.5.
So are you saying I should Wong you when the penetration is poor? Then play even through negative counts if penetration is good?
Also, in my experience, and I have at least a few years of doing this, the True count rarely gets to 5 or even 4 for that matter. Do you find this also? I can play all day, 6 hours and never see the TC be 5. Is that typical?

My comment about wonging was directed towards your definition of a $1000 (albeit replenishable) bankroll. With a roll this size my advice is dont play but if you want to play wonging will help by reducing your bet to zero on the hands where the casino has an edge. You cant afford to give up much with a $1000 roll.

WRT to Mr. Cho's comment - I would question game selection probably more than your playing skill. I dont know and never saw you but a 2.5 at worst and 1.5 at best pen game is going to be a long slug. For a 2.5 cut off game your count will exceed +5 maybe 1% of the time. So a large and aggressive spread is needed to beat this game with straight counting. i think you mentioned a 1-5 spread in your original post? this is likely not even positive or maybe just slightly positive so your results dont sound out of line to me.

My suggestion is practice at home, at PTA meetings and the like while setting aside money to fund a proper bankroll and then develop a plan of attack for the game you want to play and for the play identify your ev, std deviation and risk of ruin. I am sure that many folks on here would be willing to run a sim or two to help.

Good luck,

Cohiba

**MsBlakJak** · 12-19-2024, 06:16 PM

Thank you so much for that information! It really helped give me a new perspective. Now I see the big picture, if that makes sense.

I just got back into really playing again after a 4 year break. I'm a single mom, and of course that is my priority, but now she is getting older. So I can practice at home again and take sporadic day trips to the casino, while she is in school.

I think I'm not getting heat because of my bet spread, it was too low to make anything substantial. Or I'm really good at playing dumb, could be a combination of both. Lol. Also I wonder how many card counters the casino I go to really encounter, like how trained they are to catch a card counter, and do they even have the staff to watch cameras and watch people play like that. And another part of me wonders do they even care if I were counting cards? Because it isn't a guaranteed win, maybe they know that and don't care. I was playing pitch a few weeks ago and the guy sitting next to me was very open, telling the whole table how many aces were left in the deck, asking me what cards I and everyone else had before the hand was played out. He had 3 grand in chips in front of him and the dealer didn't care, nor did the pit boss look twice at him.

I have been practicing with the suggested bets from freightman, but I am also increasing my bet on half true counts as well now. For example if true count is 1.5 I will bet 30. If it is 2.5 I will bet 60, 3.5 I bet 100, and 4.5 I bet 140. I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do, but it seems like it to me. This might be a good cover and also help me take advantage of counting in halves. What are your thoughts on this?

**marriedputter** · 12-19-2024, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Cohiba

So a large and aggressive spread is needed to beat this game with straight counting.

And if I may add to this, an aggressive spread that it utilized for the purposes of attacking a crappy game will also have nasty variance to go with it. Your BR may be replenishable, but you will need the emotional will power to overcome what could be a massive beating.

I think I'm not getting heat because of my bet spread, it was too low to make anything substantial. Or I'm really good at playing dumb, could be a combination of both. Lol.

Though it may not be fair, your extra X-chromosome is a natural deflector of the stereotypical amalgam of a CC. I would think your womanhood is less of a tell than playing dumb. But above all, I agree that your bet spread is the #1 element that keeps them from taking notice.

Also I wonder how many card counters the casino I go to really encounter, like how trained they are to catch a card counter, and do they even have the staff to watch cameras and watch people play like that. And another part of me wonders do they even care if I were counting cards?

If you're winning, they care. Nobody likes to lose money for any reason. I had a joint that I played at for years and I considered them to be the most lenient of all the casinos in my network. Guess what? I'm now banned from counting there.

Don't ever think that they don't care. Even if by some miracle they let you get away with it for a while, they will eventually bid you adieu.

Because it isn't a guaranteed win, maybe they know that and don't care.

Definitely not it.

I was playing pitch a few weeks ago and the guy sitting next to me was very open, telling the whole table how many aces were left in the deck, asking me what cards I and everyone else had before the hand was played out. He had 3 grand in chips in front of him and the dealer didn't care, nor did the pit boss look twice at him.

Maybe he's not a threat. Regardless, they will act eventually on any winning player. Would you like it if somebody was slowly taking money from your business? How long would you let it happen before you finally stopped it?

I have been practicing with the suggested bets from freightman, but I am also increasing my bet on half true counts as well now. For example if true count is 1.5 I will bet 30. If it is 2.5 I will bet 60, 3.5 I bet 100, and 4.5 I bet 140. I'm not sure if this is the right thing to do, but it seems like it to me. This might be a good cover and also help me take advantage of counting in halves. What are your thoughts on this?

If you're wonging, that may indeed get the money, but the question that is more important to me is "How does it look? Do I look like a normal player when I do this? Granted, you can't just flat bet unless you only wong in and wong out. That will have variance though.

Any mathematical decision that you make should be tied into a concept of normalcy for your casino (as much as it realistically can be). If you're trying to decide between two or three betting approaches and you can't decide which one, go with the one that looks the most normal for a gambler. A constant wonging in and out, especially when playing during a work day like you specified, is usually not normal and maybe not even possible if the casino is somewhat dead during the day.

**MsBlakJak** · 01-03-2025, 09:54 PM

It's been awhile, I've been busy with the holidays. But I haven't stopped practicing! Lol.

Anyways, I am taking what was said seriously. I don't want to be banned. I agree that me being a woman definitely works in my favor.

So I know the game I'm playing isn't great. What is a good game? I should rephrase that and ask, what is a good game I'm likely to find. Obviously I won't find a single deck with 1/4 penetration, but what is considered a good game nowadays, that is realistic to find? Because I am planning on going to other casinos.

Also I have been playing with ill18 and fab 4. I NEED MORE! I used to own Professional Blackjack, but aren't all the indexes outdated now. I'm looking for something that tells me, take even money when count is this. Or insure for less when count is this. Or double for less when count is between x and z. And then just more indices. Like when TC is 5, for example, and I have 16 and dealer has 8. I have a huge bet out there, what number do I surrender at, because I would think that would be the wise move. Where can I get more of these indexes/indices? One would think they would be all over the internet but they are not. I bought black belt in blackjack and was disappointed that there wasn't a full list for high low in the book. Though, it was a great read!

I know I always say this, but thank you to everyone who responds. I know how busy people are with life nowadays and I do appreciate people taking time to help me out.