Help...Need Hiopt2 ASC deviations.

[Power]

Hello,
'I'm new here. I've been trying to find Deviations etc. for Hiopt2 wASC. For weeks now. Any help is VERY appreciated.
* note.
I have the Deviations from the 'Casino Vérité game. Yet it doesn't account for ASC. ( it's still all I could find sadly.)
I know there is a book or 'The hiopt report that had some. Although many people say it's very few Deviations or outdated and not worth getting.

If anyone has thier own or knows where to find them please respond. Also i have no problem buying a book that has them. Thank you. =)

Also is a 7 side count actually worth it? I read master_zens old posts just wondering if anyone put good use to it. Or if it's worth it lol. Ty!

[Ole]

Though I do not have the book specific to HO2, it is my understanding through research that the ASC in this method is intended for and relegated to modifying the TC for the betting purposes only. It was not intended to play a major role in the playing efficiency, and I believe there are few to no other deviations associated with the ASC.

On the other hand, I and many other system designers have employed the ASC in other counting strategies for additional functions, especially for insurance correlation and limited other plays.

You may find a way to develop the ASC to serve you better within the HO2 as well.

Sent from my SM-A236U using Tapatalk

[moo321]

Hello,
'I'm new here. I've been trying to find Deviations etc. for Hiopt2 wASC. For weeks now. Any help is VERY appreciated.
* note.
I have the Deviations from the 'Casino Vérité game. Yet it doesn't account for ASC. ( it's still all I could find sadly.)
I know there is a book or 'The hiopt report that had some. Although many people say it's very few Deviations or outdated and not worth getting.

If anyone has thier own or knows where to find them please respond. Also i have no problem buying a book that has them. Thank you. =)

Also is a 7 side count actually worth it? I read master_zens old posts just wondering if anyone put good use to it. Or if it's worth it lol. Ty!

Hi Opt II really isn't worth it unless you're playing good pitch games. Which are mostly gone. The 7 side count is way too much work for 99% of people.

[One2Many]

Hello,
'I'm new here. I've been trying to find Deviations etc. for Hiopt2 wASC. For weeks now. Any help is VERY appreciated.
* note.
I have the Deviations from the 'Casino Vérité game. Yet it doesn't account for ASC. ( it's still all I could find sadly.)
I know there is a book or 'The hiopt report that had some. Although many people say it's very few Deviations or outdated and not worth getting.

If anyone has thier own or knows where to find them please respond. Also i have no problem buying a book that has them. Thank you. =)

Also is a 7 side count actually worth it? I read master_zens old posts just wondering if anyone put good use to it. Or if it's worth it lol. Ty!

Insurance x2

11v(7-X) X2

12v6 X2 esp.s17

10Xv10 X4

10vA x2

99vA X4

16v7 X4

16v8,9, X2

16vX X1

A2-A5v2,3,4,5,6 X4

88v10 X2

This is just off the top of my head and not an exact estimate. You may think the Ace would help when splitting Tens because the Ace would give you S21 but this is pretty much offset by the fact the Ace also helps a dealers bust card. Same with doubling 9v7 for example. The Ace would give you a soft 20 but also would give the dealer a S18, so the surplus or shortage of Aces become offset...I didnt bother listing the ones where the Ace is only worth 1, such as when doubling on A8,A9 because im not 100 percent sure on those...There a couple online tools you can use to help you determine which hands the Ace has a positive or negative effect(or in most cases has a neutral effect)...Heres one tool you can use...The other is a MP index generator.

https://bjstrat.net/cgi-bin/cdca.cgi

Story time:

About 7 years ago i had a MaxBet out and i was dealt 88vX and the index indicated to STAND and NOT split..But since there was 4 extra Aces in the deck(rich) i proceeded to split the pair of 88s anyway..I hooked an Ace on the first 8 for Soft19 and grabbed a 2 on the second 8 for 10..Well you guessed right, i then proceeded to double the 10 knowing i was 3 Aces rich and nailed it for a S21..Of course the dealer had a Ten in the hole giving him a H20..But i in effect had turned losing 1 Max bet into winning 1 Max bet..It was a satisfying play

[pmc]

The ASC in HO2 is used to make betting more accurate.

The way it works is: you temporarily add 2 to the running count for each Ace rich the remaining deck(s) is(are) or temporarily subtract 2 from the running count for each Ace poor the remaining deck(s) is(are) for your betting decision at the start of each round.

After the adjusted betting decision has been made, restore the original running count again for subsequent playing decisions in that round.

How do you know if the remaining deck is Ace rich or poor? Taking a 1D example: 1D contains 4 Aces. You could reasonably expect to see 1 Ace for every quarter of the deck (13 cards) dealt. If you saw 2 Aces dealt from that quarter of the deck then the remaining portion of the deck is 1 Ace poor. If you saw 0 Aces dealt, the remaining deck is 1 Ace rich. Adjust your bet decision RC as described above.

Hope I understood correctly what you wanted to know and that this helps

[pmc]

Aside from that I never understand this "don't bother with Hi-Opt 2" stuff.

Why?

It's a strong count. With an ASC it's very strong indeed. An ASC isn't too hard for 1D or 2D so, if you want to, practice it, use it and benefit.

If doing the same for 4D, 6D or 8D is too hard drop the Ace side count!

Using full indices (which is, again, just a matter of learning, repetition and practice) it's still a good strong count and, in my opinion, the tags are also slightly easier to count than those of AO2 / Zen.

[Freightman]

If doing the same for 4D, 6D or 8D is too hard drop the Ace side count!

CAUTION!
Do not use Hi Opt 2 without an ASC. With ASC, hi opt 2 has a betting correlation between 98%-99%. Without ASC, hi opt 2 has a betting correlation of around a very paltry 88%.

Also, Playing Efficiency also takes a big hit - not sure of the number off the top of my head.

[pmc]

Being pedantic, without ASC HO2 BC is 91, no?

In real terms, for a 6D, H17, DAS, 5/6 game what does HO2 without ASC SCORE say, for example, vs. the "standard" Hi-Lo count that everyone is advised to use?

I'm not saying you don't lose power dropping the ASC but, really, so much as to induce lost EV panic?

[pmc]

I also don't understand how PE changes by counting Aces vs not counting Aces when Aces are valued as 0 and the ASC count is only used for betting decisions. The count for playing doesn't change either way so surely can't be better or worse.

[pmc]

I made myself curious so I went and checked.

For the game mentioned above HO2's SCORE at 13.5 RoR is 21.37. Hi-Lo's (also with full indices used) is 19.62. So HO2 with no ASC isn't *that* bad even if (as I'm almost certain is likely) Zen's SCORE would be better.

[Freightman]

I'm not saying you don't lose power dropping the ASC but, really, so much as to induce lost EV panic?

Yes

Being pedantic, without ASC HO2 BC is 91, no?

yes, and hi lo is stronger than hi opt 2 without ASC.

I also don't understand how PE changes by counting Aces vs not counting Aces when Aces are valued as 0 and the ASC count is only used for betting decisions. The count for playing doesn't change either way so surely can't be better or worse.

in ace neutral strategies such as hi opt 2, ASC is used for both betting and playing decisions. In Ace Reckoned systems such as hi lo or halves, aces are already part of the count, so ASC is used only for playing decisions - such as insurance, 99 v 7, 10 v 10 and others.

ETC.

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I also don't understand how PE changes by counting Aces vs not counting Aces when Aces are valued as 0 and the ASC count is only used for betting decisions. The count for playing doesn't change either way so surely can't be better or worse.

[Cacarulo]

Hi Freightman,

Yes, and hi lo is stronger than hi opt 2 without ASC.

Not exactly. Although Hi-Lo has a better BC (0.9621 vs. 0.9172), the PE of HO2 makes the difference (0.7554 vs. 0.5553).
This can be seen in the SCORE of both systems (6D, S17, DOA, DAS, SPA1, SPL3, NS, R22):

Hi-Lo

1-12: 21.15
1-16: 25.00

HO2 without ASC

1-12: 21.89
1-16: 25.68

Sincerely,
Cac

PS: Of course, CAC2 is even better

CAC2

1-12: 23.65
1-16: 27.73

[pmc]

Really?

Why does CVCX say it isn't then? (see above)