Negative ev

[Blackjack player]

There is a casino have 4 tables only one is shoe game 8 deck other 3 are csm.
I was wondering how much negative ev is to play at a csm table h17, no resplit aces, no surrender.
When i wong out at shoe game it takes really long time to finish shoe, so i have to act i am on call or sit in the washroom.
Csm games at this casino are pretty full tables with side bets so rph is low and min bet is 5 so if somebody can tell me how much my -ev will be if i play 60rph at min 5 bet

[Seraph]

TBH Id rather keep playing min bets during the negative count than kill time in the CSM , at least you dont lose your spot if its crowded

[Freightman]

Off the top of my head, rules described have overall house edge between .63 $ .67.

[moo321]

Why would you kill time on a losing game? There are so many better options. Go back-count another table, look for weak dealers, look for abandoned money in the slots. Or literally just hide somewhere for a few minutes. Play a game on your phone or something.


To be successful at this game, you have to have discipline. You never give action unless there is a good reason to give action. This sounds like you just want to gamble.

[McSweeney]

Never ever play CSM games under any circumstances, even if you are playing "just for fun". CSM games exist only because there's a market for them. So long as people are willing to play them, they will continue to spread.

Same goes for 6:5 blackjack.

In fact, you should leave a negative 1 star Google review on the casino commenting on their blackjack games when you see CSM or 6:5 blackjack, which is what I do.

[21forme]

The one and only time I played a CSM gamewas in Deadwood because they were offering 2% cash back. I felt naked playing that game

[Freightman]

The one and only time I played a CSM gamewas in Deadwood because they were offering 2% cash back. I felt naked playing that game

with good rules - about 1.5% player edge. Was there an upper cap?

[21forme]

with good rules - about 1.5% player edge. Was there an upper cap?

Yes, $100 per hand. That was the limit in Deadwood at the time. I believe it's higher now.

Also, hit some positive vairance on the game, so it worked out well.

[Cohiba]

Some of my biggest wins have been on 6/5 games. Last backoff and trespassing was on a 6/5 CSM. Glad to hear that you made a few in deadwood!

[moo321]

Never ever play CSM games under any circumstances, even if you are playing "just for fun". CSM games exist only because there's a market for them. So long as people are willing to play them, they will continue to spread.

Same goes for 6:5 blackjack.

In fact, you should leave a negative 1 star Google review on the casino commenting on their blackjack games when you see CSM or 6:5 blackjack, which is what I do.

There are a LOT of good reasons to play a CSM.

[zbest1966]

Wow so there is an edge playing 6/5 games

[Sidecount]

Some of my biggest wins have been on 6/5 games. Last backoff and trespassing was on a 6/5 CSM. Glad to hear that you made a few in deadwood!

Holecarding perhaps? Really curious on this one.

[Archvaldor]

Holecarding perhaps? Really curious on this one.

All things being equal there is no reason to play 6:5.

If there are procedural aberrations such as dealer errors, card exposure or they deal down to the last card or something you might have an opportunity. It is not some big secret.