Negative ev

[DSchles]

My simulator works just like SBA (keep in mind that I developed it over 25 years ago), and my results are indeed negatively impacted, which I find difficult to understand.

You're playing the game at an advantage. The more rounds, the greater the edge. Why wouldn't the results be negatively impacted if you take away a round? Conversely, if you were playing BS on every round and flat betting, wouldn't you prefer not to have received that round?

Don

[moo321]

You're playing the game at an advantage. The more rounds, the greater the edge. Why wouldn't the results be negatively impacted if you take away a round? Conversely, if you were playing BS on every round and flat betting, wouldn't you prefer not to have received that round?

Don

Did you see my post above about the difference in results between face up and face down?


Do you think that explains the difference in results we were seeing?

[Cacarulo]

You're playing the game at an advantage. The more rounds, the greater the edge. Why wouldn't the results be negatively impacted if you take away a round? Conversely, if you were playing BS on every round and flat betting, wouldn't you prefer not to have received that round?

Don

You’re absolutely right, that’s the difference between my software and Norm’s.
Clearly, by discarding that last round, my SCOREs are going to be lower than if I didn’t discard it and tried to finish it.
Thanks for opening my eyes!
As for playing with basic strategy and flat betting, there wouldn’t be any difference. The expected value of round 1 will be the same as round 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc.

Sincerely,
Cac

[DSchles]

As for playing with basic strategy and flat betting, there wouldn’t be any difference.

Yes, there would.

The expected value of round 1 will be the same as round 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc.

Right. But you will play one more round at a negative expectation! If I offered to pay you what you lost playing BS for two different deals, one with removing all the discards and thereby canceling the round, and one with playing out the hand, which would you prefer?

Don

[DSchles]

Did you see my post above about the difference in results between face up and face down?


Do you think that explains the difference in results we were seeing?

Yes. Of course, I don't know if it explains ALL of the difference, but it clearly makes a difference. I've seen DD dealt face up, but never single deck. Then again, in my 49 years of playing the game, I've only spent about 45 minutes playing single deck (in Tahoe)!

Don

[Cacarulo]

Yes, there would.

Right. But you will play one more round at a negative expectation! If I offered to pay you what you lost playing BS for two different deals, one with removing all the discards and thereby canceling the round, and one with playing out the hand, which would you prefer?

Don

Ahh, I understood what you meant. Actually, I shouldn’t be playing any round of a game with negative expectation.

Sincerely,
Cac

[ShipTheCookies]

The only SD type game I've ever seen dealt face up is SF21.

[G Man]

Yes. Of course, I don't know if it explains ALL of the difference, but it clearly makes a difference. I've seen DD dealt face up, but never single deck. Then again, in my 49 years of playing the game, I've only spent about 45 minutes playing single deck (in Tahoe)!
Don

If my memory serves me well, I played a SD game dealt face up in 2002 at Silver Club in Sparks, Nevada !

[moo321]

Yes. Of course, I don't know if it explains ALL of the difference, but it clearly makes a difference. I've seen DD dealt face up, but never single deck. Then again, in my 49 years of playing the game, I've only spent about 45 minutes playing single deck (in Tahoe)!

Don

I actually didn't think about it before I ran the sims. The default is for the sim to be face up.


My memory was that most of the 6 to 5 single deck was dealt face up, as it was considered a carny game. I can certainly remember playing a number of face up games in both Vegas and Atlantic City. Maybe it's changed, and they're dealing it face down now, as I haven't been travelling to play as much as I used to.


Is there anyone in Vegas or AC that can confirm whether the 6 to 5 single deck is being dealt face up or face down? It's somewhat of a bigger deal as far as results than I initially realized.

[Norm]

The default is for the sim to be face up.

The default in the SD template is face down.

[Archvaldor]

The default in the SD template is face down.

I am assuming all the sim data from face down games others have supplied did not use any counting by inference assumptions. That would make the numbers for face down games more interesting.

[Norm]

I doubt if anyone uses that feature.