Back Bettors ("Riders")

**Overkill** · 09-03-2024, 09:28 PM

In "Burning the Tables in Las Vegas," Ian Andersen goes into some detail about this kind of play. A back bettor or "rider" stands behind the seated blackjack player and, though she has no 'say' in the hand, can place a bet on the seated player's hand. Apparently this is permitted in Australia, Asia, and a lot of Europe.

I had heard Foxwood allowed back bettors previously. I realize this kind of play resembles what is often seen with online blackjack.

Do any U.S. 'brick and mortar' or cruise ship casinos offer this option?

Thanks in advance!!

**San Jose Bella** · 09-03-2024, 11:32 PM

Never seen back better in the US

**McSweeney** · 09-04-2024, 12:29 AM

Every casino in Saskatchewan, Canada has back betting available. There have been times I've been back counting a table there but am unable to sit down during a high count because all the seats are taken, so I do the next best thing and size up who the best player is and place a bet behind him/her. My general rule is I bet half of what I normally would if I were playing due to the increased risk of the person making mistakes and not having access to playing deviations ... but a monster count is a monster count!

**Archvaldor** · 09-04-2024, 02:13 AM

Originally Posted by McSweeney

Every casino in Saskatchewan, Canada has back betting available. There have been times I've been back counting a table there but am unable to sit down during a high count because all the seats are taken, so I do the next best thing and size up who the best player is and place a bet behind him/her. My general rule is I bet half of what I normally would if I were playing due to the increased risk of the person making mistakes and not having access to playing deviations ... but a monster count is a monster count!

A typical player is going to lose at the rate of 2%. There's some variance around that estimate. Moreover they aren't going to exploit high count situations correctly. IMHO this isn't an effective use of time generally.

**James989** · 09-04-2024, 03:19 AM

If the ratio of "FRONT" bettor betsize and "BACK" bettor betsize is 1 to 10, you can improve your edge about 0.18%, if the ratio is 1 to 20, the ev improvement is about 0.2%.

So it is unnecessary for BACK bettor to bet 20 times the FRONT bettor's betsize.

**21forme** · 09-04-2024, 04:30 AM

I played at Foxwoods during the backbetting days. I got backed off in the Newport room while a back bettor on my hand was betting purples. She was happy

And James989 is correct. I used this strategy with a simian former member of this site known for his secret count. There is a different strategy for it, such as playing only one of two hands on splits.

**21forme** · 09-04-2024, 04:50 AM

A historical note about Foxwoods and back betting:
They offered back betting because Foxwoods was so crowded at that time and getting a seat at the tables was difficult. I heard they stopped back betting because of something called back betting extortion.
Say you have a big player back betting you. You get a BJ, turn around to the big bettor and say, "I'm going to hit my BJ unless you give me a black chip," Needless to say, some fights erupted and it was discontinued.

**moo321** · 09-04-2024, 07:31 AM

Civilians can't even play basic strategy. So you generally don't want to back bet them for simple counting. You could if the count is really ridiculous and even a bad player will have a small advantage.

Back betting works great to get more action on side bets. Or if you have next card information. But it may look funny, and there is the worry of extortion as other have pointed out.

It can also be nice if the back bettor isn't forced to follow splits.

**moo321** · 09-04-2024, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by 21forme

I played at Foxwoods during the backbetting days. I got backed off in the Newport room while a back bettor on my hand was betting purples. She was happy

And James989 is correct. I used this strategy with a simian former member of this site known for his secret count. There is a different strategy for it, such as playing only one of two hands on splits.

The purple action may have brought heat on you.

**Cacarulo** · 09-04-2024, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by 21forme

I played at Foxwoods during the backbetting days. I got backed off in the Newport room while a back bettor on my hand was betting purples. She was happy

And James989 is correct. I used this strategy with a simian former member of this site known for his secret count. There is a different strategy for it, such as playing only one of two hands on splits.

I believe Dog Hand won a POM (Post of the Month) on GC BJ21 several years ago with this topic.

Sincerely,
Cac

**Dog Hand** · 09-05-2024, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by Cacarulo

I believe Dog Hand won a POM (Post of the Month) on GC BJ21 several years ago with this topic.

Sincerely,
Cac

Cacarulo,

Yes, I did. Here is the link for those with bj21 Green Chip access:

https://bj21.com/boards/green-chip-f...n-hairy-splits

Dog Hand

**Cacarulo** · 09-06-2024, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Dog Hand

Cacarulo,

Yes, I did. Here is the link for those with bj21 Green Chip access:

https://bj21.com/boards/green-chip-f...n-hairy-splits

Dog Hand

Magnificent POM! Thank you for the link.

Sincerely,
Cac

**Mirana** · 09-06-2024, 03:55 PM

Is there a way to read this post? I am very interested in that topic and also did some calculations on my own and want to verify my results.
I´ve already written 2 private messages to you, Dog Hand.
I don´t have a green chip subscription for BJ21 forum, because I don´t have a credit card and the BJ21 support answered me, that there is no way to get a membership without credit card.
I would be even willing to pay you some $$$ (via PayPal?) if you could send me this post via e-mail.