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Thread: Some questions for the pros about their start

  1. #14
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    I looked up Don's table and found the gain numbers for these three decisions:

    Insurance: 0.117%;
    T,T vs 5: 0.037%;
    T,T vs 6: 0.017%.

    So, the ten-splitting gain is the sum of last two numbers. This makes 0.054%, which is almost a half of the insurance gain. The numbers say the ten-splitting decision is important. It is actually more important than the 16 vs T hitting/standing decision.

  2. #15


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    If you're just asking on whether or not it's important, oh heck yeah it's important. It's worth a whole lot. However the OP wants to last in his local area. Splitting tens on high counts is like pinning a bullseye on your chest. It's a tough pill to swallow, but few counters do this. Even fewer would do so in their local haunts. You're just asking for the boot if you do.

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by marriedputter View Post
    If you have BA3, read chapter 5 and pay particular attention to the table on page 62.
    Whats BA3?

  4. #17


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    Quote Originally Posted by LicenseToTilt View Post
    Whats BA3?
    the book…Blackjack Attack 3… by Don Schlesinger….a must have for an AP

  5. #18
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    I posted the above numbers to invite Don the author to comment. Actually I don’t quite understand why the ten-splitting of T,T vs 5 is a lot more valuable than that of T,T vs 6, considering the frequency of seeing the former at TC=+5 is a lot less than seeing the latter at TC=+4.
    Last edited by aceside; 10-23-2023 at 10:48 PM.

  6. #19


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    I posted the above numbers to invite Don the author to comment. Actually I don’t understand why the ten-splitting of T,T vs 5 is a lot more valuable than that of T,T vs 6, considering the frequency of seeing the former at TC=+5 is a lot less than seeing the later at TC=+4.
    I believe that to assess the true benefit of splitting a pair of tens vs 5/6, you should consult 'The Hi-Lo Card Counting System: A Complete Guide to Index Play'.
    The comparison should be made in terms of SCORE and not EV. Splitting tens vs 5/6 should in no way surpass Insurance or 16 vs T.

    Sincerely,
    Cac
    Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.

  7. #20
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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I’d imagine that the relative importance of splitting T,T vs 5/6 hands depends on this particular rule, stand-17 or hit-17. For a hit-17 game, the ten-splitting gain of T,T vs 6 should gain a little more value from that in a stand-17 game because the dealer will bust slightly more under this rule.
    Last edited by aceside; 10-23-2023 at 10:53 PM.

  8. #21


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    I’d imagine that the relative importance of splitting T,T vs 5/6 hands depends on this particular rule, stand-17 or hit-17. For a hit-17 game, the ten-splitting gain of T,T vs 6 should gain a little more value from that in a stand-17 game because the dealer will bust slightly more under this rule.
    I'm sorry, but I don't have access to the book at the moment for reference. It's possible that in H17, TTv6 gains an advantage over S17,
    but the same may not hold true for TTv5.

    Sincerely,
    Cac
    Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.

  9. #22


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cacarulo View Post
    I'm sorry, but I don't have access to the book at the moment for reference. It's possible that in H17, TTv6 gains an advantage over S17,
    but the same may not hold true for TTv5.

    Sincerely,
    Cac
    As is always the case, aceside is talking out of his ass.

    Per Wong (Prof BJ, Appendix E), The EV for splitting TTv6 in S17 is 0.567. In H17 it's 0.556.

    The reason most casinos went H17 is their EV for hitting a soft 17 is greater than standing on a soft 17.

  10. #23


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    Yes, but I am talking about SCORE, not EV. That's why I used Don and Dave's latest book as a reference.

    Sincerely,
    Cac
    Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.

  11. #24
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    Speaking of the EV from splitting tens, I just tried Wizard’s Blackjack Hand Calculator and found these interesting numbers. In the Calculator, I set the deck number as 6, the rule as Stand-17, and look at this particular hand of T,T vs 6 for different maximum numbers of pair-splitting:

    For SPL-1, Split EV=0.566767;
    For SPL-2, Split EV=0.345250;
    For SPL-3, Split EV=0.501678.

    It looks like there is a bug in this calculator. Cac, can you take a look at this part too?
    Last edited by aceside; 10-24-2023 at 09:24 PM.

  12. #25


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    Speaking of the EV from splitting tens, I just tried Wizard’s Blackjack Hand Calculator and found these interesting numbers. In the Calculator, I set the deck number as 6, the rule as Stand-17, and look at this particular hand of T,T vs 6 for different maximum numbers of pair-splitting:

    For SPL-1, Split EV=0.566767;
    For SPL-2, Split EV=0.345250;
    For SPL-3, Split EV=0.501678.

    It looks like there is a bug in this calculator. Cac, can you take a look at this part too?
    The only number we agree on is the first one (spl1). The logical order should be spl1 > spl2 > spl3.

    Sincerely,
    Cac
    Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.

  13. #26


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    Speaking of the EV from splitting tens, I just tried Wizard’s Blackjack Hand Calculator and found these interesting numbers. In the Calculator, I set the deck number as 6, the rule as Stand-17, and look at this particular hand of T,T vs 6 for different maximum numbers of pair-splitting:

    For SPL-1, Split EV=0.566767;
    For SPL-2, Split EV=0.345250;
    For SPL-3, Split EV=0.501678.

    It looks like there is a bug in this calculator. Cac, can you take a look at this part too?
    You have the precise values in the Appendix of BJA3.

    Don

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