1st vs 3rd Base

[Coincidence]

Have been reading Snyder's material regarding basics and sequencing. Can someone explain if there are actually any discrepancies between 1st and 3rd base regarding EV? Am I misunderstanding this? Or is this present when implementing specific strategies only? Thanks

[Archvaldor]

Simple answer: No. Slightly more complex answer: there might be some extremely minor effects if you get a very gross shuffle but the phenomena is so sensitive to initial conditions anyway it could hurt or help. If you find a shuffle so bad that these effects actually exist to a statistically significant extent you can murder it with any simple shuffle-tracking strategy.

[PitBoss321]

I find first base much more valuable because you don't get shit for taking the dealer's cards, and you can surrender without a fast dealer immediately hitting first base.

[21forme]

I find first base much more valuable because you don't get shit for taking the dealer's cards

There are other players at the table?

[Freightman]

There is a minor improvement in EV when playing 3rd base. That minor improvement improves the further into the shoe you go. In good pen shoes, that improvement may turn out to become quite valuable. The reason being - you get to act on more cards being shown to you vs your table mates. As it relates to sequencing EV - don’t know.

That being said, I prefer heads up and when not heads up, I seldom play 3rd.

[G Man]

I find first base much more valuable because you don't get shit for taking the dealer's cards, and you can surrender without a fast dealer immediately hitting first base.

Obviously your play is in Europe. In North America, you surrender when it's your turn to play and don't have to worry about being faster than first base decision.

[ShipTheCookies]

There are other players at the table?

Yeah, my BP's

[Freightman]

Obviously your play is in Europe. In North America, you surrender when it's your turn to play and don't have to worry about being faster than first base decision.

Actually, from past posts - I would suggest Western Canada.

I guess PitBoss321 can name the winner. Oh, I actually think I can nail that down a bit further.

[Coincidence]

Very Interesting. Appreciate the thoughts

[Coincidence]

There is a minor improvement in EV when playing 3rd base. That minor improvement improves the further into the shoe you go. In good pen shoes, that improvement may turn out to become quite valuable. The reason being - you get to act on more cards being shown to you vs your table mates. As it relates to sequencing EV - don’t know.

That being said, I prefer heads up and when not heads up, I seldom play 3rd.

Thanks for the input! Helped a lot

[Coincidence]

Simple answer: No. Slightly more complex answer: there might be some extremely minor effects if you get a very gross shuffle but the phenomena is so sensitive to initial conditions anyway it could hurt or help. If you find a shuffle so bad that these effects actually exist to a statistically significant extent you can murder it with any simple shuffle-tracking strategy.

Makes a lot more sense now. That makes me think that team play is where things might become a little more significant, but also much more complicated to implement for +EV

[PitBoss321]

Obviously your play is in Europe. In North America, you surrender when it's your turn to play and don't have to worry about being faster than first base decision.

That's just not true for all of North America.

[Freightman]

That's just not true for all of North America.

@G Man
Re PitBoss comments against your post 6. The PitBoss is right. Note Freightman comments post 8. Hell - not only can I name the Province, likely the city(cities) as well (1 of 2) - and likely the individual in question. Gotta be out of my mind making these comments - don’t really give a shit though.

Im not including the pit boss that I trade info and bj advice to.