Grossjean's Ex-CAA Beyond Card Counting basic strategy tables question....

[Boone Snarpe]

The basic strategy tables on pages -14 through -11 say:

> Best option (expectation-maximizing) is listed first.

Why do some matchups include many options while others do not?

For example, the recommendation is to simply split (p) 33 v 3. So the chart says 3. Then the option for 33 v 4 reads (Ph), so split else hit (if for some reason you can't split) is the way I'm reading it. But wouldn't that make just as much sense in the first hand example? But that hand, 33 v 3, only says p, not ph, for example. Any idea why?

[DSchles]

The basic strategy tables on pages -14 through -11 say:

I don't have CAA but am looking at the Beyond Counting pages 207-209 tables, which I assume are the same. Maybe not.

For example, the recommendation is to simply split (p) 33 v 3. So the chart says 3.

I assume the chart says p, not 3! Is that what you meant?

Then the option for 33 v 4 reads (Ph), so split else hit (if for some reason you can't split) is the way I'm reading it. But wouldn't that make just as much sense in the first hand example? But that hand, 33 v 3, only says p, not ph, for example. Any idea why?

It isn't this way in BC. There are three BS charts, and none of them has just a single entry p for 3,3, vs. 3.

Don

[Boone Snarpe]

Hi Don!

In Exhibit CAA those pages don’t have BS tables. A few pages later (211-216) there are some BS tables with critical fractions related to that chapter’s theme and they are not the same. The tables I’m going by are pages -14 to -11 towards the beginning.

Exactly, I meant the recommendation for 33 is v 3 is p, which just means to split, of course. My question is why would 33v3 only say split and 33v4 go into more detail (to split otherwise hit) when it seems like the same could be said or detail added for 33v3.

And the same question applies to many other hands. Some have this extra level of detail and some (seemingly similar) have only one recommendation (to hit etc).

[DSchles]

Would like to help but without seeing it, not sure. Maybe someone who has the book can find a suitable explanation. You don't say for what game or rules we're talking about.

Don

[Boone Snarpe]

I think the charts are trying to capture every optimal move in order for more or less every game. There are four pages of these basic strategy charts. One page each for single-deck, double-deck, 6-deck and 8-deck.


I'm trying to create flaschards and plan to memorize every letter, but I'm not sure how wise that is...I've already memorized BS for a 4-deck game using LV rules. In my OP I'm a bit at a loss for why in some spots two options are given whereas other spots that appear similar only have one option.


The tables list H17/S17 moves for when they differ.


While usually a single or two letters are listed, the moves get as complicated as the following...


For example, under the DAS tables for the matchup 88 v Ace (extracted from across the pages):


Single-Deck: eprh/eph
Double-Deck: eprh
Six-Deck: erph/eprh (8-deck is the same)


Since the bottom of the tables say: "Best option (expectation maximizing is listed first)"


I take this all to mean (using 6-deck H17 as my default game and noting differences when they arise):


Eights Ace; Early Surrender else surrender else split else hit;


Multi-deck S17, Single Deck H17, all Double Deck: Eights Ace; early surrender else split else surrender else hit;


Of course, not every game has early surrender (e)...but that would, I think, be the default move whenever available being the most +EV (listed first).


***


In another matchup of 55 v 3 (DAS) the data listed is:


Single-Deck: DH1
Double-Deck: DH1/DH
Six-Deck: D (8-deck is the same)


H1 the key simply says means to hit once (I take that to mean never ever hit more than once?). So I interpet this as (with, again, 6-deck being my default game):


Fives 3; Double;
Single Deck and Double Deck: Fives 3; Double or hit once;
Double Deck S17: Fives 3; Double or hit;


***


Without going crazy, should I memorize every move like this...in order from most EV to least?

[k_c]

Without going crazy, should I memorize every move like this...in order from most EV to least?

Not sure if this will help but I spent some time devising a generic basic strategy. It is usable for any number of decks with very little loss in EV as compared with total dependent (and comp dependent) basic strategy. There is more loss for fewer decks and very little loss for multiple decks. Loss in EV is listed versus TD basic and CD basic for 1,2,4,6,8 decks.

There are 4 main strategy tables:
Dealer stands on soft 17, full peek
Dealer hits soft 17, full peek
Dealer stands on soft 17, no peek
Dealer hits soft 17, no peek

Note: Comparison EVs computed for NDAS and other limited rules only.

Links to each are toward bottom of page.

http://www.bjstrat.net/basicStrat.html

k_c

[Norm]

But that hand, 33 v 3, only says p, not ph, for example. Any idea why?

Just assume ph. Thing is, 33v3 is an awful hand if you can't split. You can't double. There is no choice but to hit.

[Boone Snarpe]

Would there much value in learning all the secondary and tertiary actions (next most positive EV)? I can see how it’s worthwhile knowing when early surrender is the better option, but I understand those games are rare.

Still if I knew “erh” is better in single-deck H17 and “eh” is better in all other games, I suppose that would be valuable info that would add up…something that would be harder to achieve if I just memorized the first recommended move.

Of course, like you say Norm, it’s obvious that you would hit 33 v 3 when you can’t split, so some of the moves are obvious. But maybe worthwhile having “ph” pop into my head rather than simply “split” and so on for every matchup outlined in Grossjean’s BS tables.

[Boone Snarpe]

Looking at the chart even further...the basic strategy matchup (6deck NoDAS) of 44 v 5 and 44 v 6...the recommendation reads as HD...as in hit else double.

In what possible situation would you not be allowed to hit but you would be allowed to double?

[Cacarulo]

Looking at the chart even further...the basic strategy matchup (6deck NoDAS) of 44 v 5 and 44 v 6...the recommendation reads as HD...as in hit else double.

In what possible situation would you not be allowed to hit but you would be allowed to double?

It sounds confusing. Both options have a positive expected value but Hitting is better. Perhaps the program with which the table was created lists only the positive options in order. Although in that case 44v6 (H17) should be HDP (SPL1).

Sincerely,
Cac