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Thread: CVCX - Basic High-Low table evolution ? hard DD on 8 VS 5 & 6 ?

  1. #1


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    CVCX - Basic High-Low table evolution ? hard DD on 8 VS 5 & 6 ?

    Hello,
    i recently invested in CVCX to try to determine the best strategy with the specific set of rules below, try several bet spread/strategies, and détermine the exact deviations.

    For the first simulations, the Stanford Wong Basic High Low table displayed to not Double Down on 8 vs 5 and 8 vs 6 (not before TC +3 and +1 respectively)

    But after several simulations (to try to détermine the effect of playing only "0 deviations" I saw that the Basic High-Low table has changed ! and now it displays to always Double Down on 8 vs 5 and 8 vs 6..!

    I don't understand why.. and I don't know now what to do now on these hands ! ^^'

    Set of rules for my simulations :
    - 6 Decks
    - No surrender
    - Double on any hand
    - Double after Split
    - Stand on Soft 17
    - Split to 3 hands max
    - No resplit Aces (only one Split and only one card after)
    - ENHC (No Hole Card - BJ wins all)
    - BlackJack pays 3:2
    - 5 burn cards

    Great if you could help, thank you !

    DD on 8vs6.JPG
    Last edited by Cosmicfrog; 03-22-2023 at 03:46 PM.

  2. #2


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    Are you sure you didn't code it such that you're playing only deviations where the index is 0 or higher?

    Don

  3. #3


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    Table différence between illustrious 18 and full indexes, ?!

    I found something weird.. In fact if you display the table with the illustrious 18, it says to always DD on 8vs6 and 8vs5,BUT if you display the table with full index, it says to DD if TC >= +1 for 8vs6 and +3 for 8vs5..? ???? So what is the solution to this..?

  4. #4

  5. #5


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    Doubling 8 vs. 5 and 6 is correct BS ONLY for single-deck games. So, it should never come up as BS in an I18 table of a multi-deck game. Makes no sense.

    Can't tell you what's wrong. Can only tell you that the correct Hi-Lo floored indices for your game are +4 and +2.

    Don

  6. #6


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    Hi, thank you for your answers !

    But I'm a bit lost now.. ^^'
    I thought I could use the Indices displayed in the table above after set all the rules I use (and particularly checked "multi deck game").. but apparently I can't (if the floored Indices are +4 and +2..?)

    So how can I determine the basic strategy, and the 40 better deviations + highlight the illustrious 18 (or 15 with ENHC) for my set of rules..?

    Thought I could "easily" do it with CVCX..

  7. #7


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    I found your BS engine in another post you made, and that the result below.

    And that's the BS that I used, now I'm looking for confirmation from CVCX for this strategy with my exact set rules games above, and I bought it to calculate the 40 best deviations (and Highlightening the 18 more important, to learn them in 2 times) of these strategy.

    Once these exact/optimal strategy determined, I planed to collect data (EV, win rate, RoR, SCORE..) making simulations for different situations :
    - Playing BS only (flat bet, no counting)
    - playing BS + Ill 18 with different betting strategies
    - playing BS + 40 deviations with different betting strategies
    - playing BS with different betting strategies but no deviation
    - playing BS with different betting strategies with only the few deviations around TC = 0

    To see the impact of each variations..
    The different betting strategies :
    Flat / 1,2,3,4,5,6 / 1,2,4,8 / 1,2,4,8,12 / 1,2,8,12 / optimal..etc

    And I made these simulations (with 1000 M hands each, is it enough ?) But with a wrong strategy attached apparently, because I used the Basic High Low of Standford Wong mention in my 1st post.. =/

    Thank you for your help.

    Screenshot_20230323_085356_Chrome.jpg
    Last edited by Cosmicfrog; 03-23-2023 at 02:15 AM.

  8. #8


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    To see the impact of each variations..
    The different betting strategies :
    Flat / 1,2,3,4,5,6 / 1,2,4,8 / 1,2,4,8,12 / 1,2,8,12 / optimal..etc
    Using CVCX - bolded ramp should show a lower SCORE which should improve utilizing half true counts. As an example (adjust to "5.0 house edge) - you are even with the house at true 1, .5 he at true 2 and 3 units at true 3 - from true 2 to true 3, you’ve raised your bet by 1/3 while your margin has doubled which is clearly inefficient.

    Also, you should compare each ramp against different deck pens and again v half true counts. If you can master these calculations, you should develop the necessary skill to ramp on the fly against different deck pens which translates to using different ramps at different deck penetrations.

  9. #9
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    CVCX is a parallel simulator, which means it can sim different rules in the same run. When you click on Display Tables in Attach strategy, it shows one of the sets of tables, but does not know which set of rules you are simming. You can use Define/Edit Strategies to see all of the tables in a strategy as follows:

    Click Define/Edit Strategies
    Click Open an existing Playing Strategy
    Open the Included Strategies folder and Stanford Wong folder and click on Basic High-Low
    Click Open
    Click Tables
    Here you will see all of the full index tables in the strategy. If you select Illustrious 18 or Sweet 16, or limit the range of indices, indices outside of the selected range will be replaced with basic strategy for the rule set being simulated. If you are running multiple sims for different rule sets in the same run, CVCX will change the tables for each sim.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    CVCX is a parallel simulator, which means it can sim different rules in the same run. When you click on Display Tables in Attach strategy, it shows one of the sets of tables, but does not know which set of rules you are simming. You can use Define/Edit Strategies to see all of the tables in a strategy as follows:

    Click Define/Edit Strategies
    Click Open an existing Playing Strategy
    Open the Included Strategies folder and Stanford Wong folder and click on Basic High-Low
    Click Open
    Click Tables
    Here you will see all of the full index tables in the strategy. If you select Illustrious 18 or Sweet 16, or limit the range of indices, indices outside of the selected range will be replaced with basic strategy for the rule set being simulated. If you are running multiple sims for different rule sets in the same run, CVCX will change the tables for each sim.
    Hello, thank you for this, but when I follow the instructions, I arrive on this last window, and can't select "illustrious 18" or a custom range for indices..?

    I checked all the tables, and there are 40 deviations (see the table below)..


    And I don't know which ones are the Illustrious 18 because on some tables I saw, 12vs5 or 13vs3 are in the illustrious 18, but here, they are not even in the 40 deviations displayed..?!

    It's much more complicated that i thought to dertermine the optimal table with the 40 best deviations for my (european) set rules game..

    And last, the indices displayed for 8vs5 and 8vs6 are +3 and +1, why Don told me above that it's +4 and +2 for my rule set ? who is right ? ^^

    Thank you by advance, sorry for all these questions.. just try to understand to use it correctly and optimise my strategy..

    basic.JPG

    HILO BS 40 dev.JPG

    8vs5 et 8vs6.JPG
    Last edited by Cosmicfrog; 03-23-2023 at 04:07 PM.

  11. #11


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    It sounds as if exactly what you're looking for is contained in our new book.

    Don

  12. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    It sounds as if exactly what you're looking for is contained in our new book.
    What book ?

    What about "incoherences" in CVCX ?
    Why 12vs5 and 13vs3 deviations are not displayed..?
    Why do you said that 8vs6 and 8vs5 are +2 and +4, while CVCX displayed +1 and +3 ?

    Thank you

  13. #13
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    CVCX indices come from the original books. There are different methods of calculating true counts. For example, Stanford's original book used flooring and later editions truncation. Don's use flooring. There are also differences in deck estimation accuracy. Lots of variables.

    Incidentally, although I stated earlier that CVCX doesn't know what to display if you are simming more than one rule set at once, I just uploaded a new update to CVCX which will display the correct tables if you only specify one rule set. In this case, it knows what to display from Attach Playing Strategy/Display Tables.
    Last edited by Norm; 03-25-2023 at 07:40 AM.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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