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Thread: thinking about spreading 1 to 2 or 3 just to get comps

  1. #14


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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBluejay View Post
    I don't think so. The figure I use in my calculator (explained in the article) is 0.75% for 3:2 games; the source (cited) was the Wizard of Odds, who in turn cited an executive at a major strip casino. At 2%, you wouldn't even have to count+spread in order to come out ahead from comps.

    I would love to have a more recent source (and one for 6:5 blackjack, and info on how they rate for skill), but that info is hard to come by. Maybe the pit boss would tell me if I simply ask...
    MichaelBluejay,

    I believe you are misinterpreting Zach Black's 2% figure: he isn't claiming that an average BJ player has a 2% comp rate, but rather a 2% loss rate. Thus, for 100 rounds at an average bet of $100 (so $10,000 in total initial bets), the average BJ player loses 2%, or $200.

    If the Wizard is correct, that average BJ player receives $75 in comps.

    Hope this helps!

    Dog Hand

  2. #15


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    Quote Originally Posted by Dog Hand
    I believe you are misinterpreting Zach Black's 2% figure: he isn't claiming that an average BJ player has a 2% comp rate, but rather a 2% loss rate. Thus, for 100 rounds at an average bet of $100 (so $10,000 in total initial bets), the average BJ player loses 2%, or $200.
    I don't know why you thought I thought the 2% was a comp rate. Of course it's an expected edge. What I said was, if the casino comped you as though you lost 2% (instead of 0.75%), you wouldn't even need to count + spread to come out ahead from comps (because they'd be comping you 3x more than they should).

    I don't think the average blackjack player plays at a 2% loss, on 3:2 games. The Wizard's simple strategy, which is pretty far from basic strategy, adds only 0.53% to the house edge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dog Hand
    If the Wizard is correct, that average BJ player receives $75 in comps.
    No, not unless the casino is comping 100% of loss! $10k action x 0.75% = $75 in expected loss, and the player can expect to get back 20-40% of that in comps at a strip casino, as per my source.

  3. #16


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    People are talking at cross-purposes here. In the old days, casinos figured 2% loss and then comped at about a 40% rate. It was easy to verify those numbers when you received the comps. Little by little, they got much stingier, first assuming, for the better BS players, that the loss rate wouldn't be even 1%, and would be more like the 0.75% being discussed above, if not the more accurate 0.5%. Finally, they simply stopped giving 40% of that figure and went to 20%, if you were lucky. And none EVER figured 100 hands per hour--always 70. So, if you played alone, to win more, it hurt your comps, because you were playing 200 hands an hour but were getting credit for only 70. I know of no casino where they ever changed the hands per hour assumption based on how many players were at the table. So, that hurt as well.

    So places that, for the $100 average-bet player, used to comp $100 x 70 x 2% x 40% = $56 per hour now are comping the insulting, minuscule $100 x 70 x 0.5% x 20% = $7 per hour!!

    All the comps these days go to the slot players.

    Don

  4. #17


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    So places that, for the $100 average-bet player, used to comp $100 x 70 x 2% x 40% = $56 per hour now are comping the insulting, minuscule $100 x 70 x 0.5% x 20% = $7 per hour!!

    All the comps these days go to the slot players.

    Don
    I use it to my advantage. This is why when occasionally go to new places and they ask why I don't get a player's card, I just say it isn't worth my time since I am not a high-limit player you won't give me shit in comps. Usually shuts them up quickly since they know it is true.

  5. #18


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    ...they got much stingier, first assuming...that the loss rate ...would be more like the 0.75% being discussed above, if not the more accurate 0.5%.... are comping the insulting, minuscule $100 x 70 x 0.5% x 20% = $7 per hour!!
    Thank you for elaborating. To be clear, my comp calculator uses 70 rounds per hour, and 0.75% for a 3:2 game. For the comp percentage, the calculator lets you choose 10, 20, 30, or 40%, depending on how generous or stingy your particular casino is.

  6. #19


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    BTW, my calculator uses a loss % for 6:5 of 1.84%, which is a reasonable assumption, since it's 0.18 points higher than the 1.66% edge, same as comping for 3:2 at 0.75% for games with a 0.57% edge. I don't suppose anyone has any insight into the loss percentage that casinos assume for 6:5 games?

  7. #20


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    People moronic enough to play 6:5 games should be comped whatever it takes to keep them playing forever.

    Don

  8. #21


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    6:5 is going to ruin the game of blackjack. Should not be allowed to call it blackjack. Counting cards and playing for comps is counterproductive(no pun intended). Stay anonymous and use your winnings for extras or donate them to a partner that plays the slots. Slots are much faster comp generators.

  9. #22


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    Quote Originally Posted by 151Proof View Post
    6:5 is going to ruin the game of blackjack. Should not be allowed to call it blackjack. Counting cards and playing for comps is counterproductive(no pun intended). Stay anonymous and use your winnings for extras or donate them to a partner that plays the slots. Slots are much faster comp generators.
    Well said.

  10. #23
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    I agree. DD games are heavily watched by cameras. They are not for comps.

  11. #24


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    Quote Originally Posted by 151Proof View Post
    6:5 is going to ruin the game of blackjack. Should not be allowed to call it blackjack. Counting cards and playing for comps is counterproductive(no pun intended). Stay anonymous and use your winnings for extras or donate them to a partner that plays the slots. Slots are much faster comp generators.
    And in some cases, more valuable and lucrative than card counting blackjack.

  12. #25


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    Does anyone know if Spanish 21 is comped more generously than Blackjack?

  13. #26
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    It’s likely that both Blackjack and Spanish 21 are comped at the same rate. However, what I noticed is that pit bosses determine the comp points mainly by looking at the amount of chips left when player coloring up. The more chips you have on the table, the more comp points you will get. Of course, they probably have a formula to deduct your initial buy-in amount. To get more comp points, I often buy in chips from one table but use them at another table. This gives the pit boss an impression that I have won a lot.
    Last edited by aceside; 04-01-2023 at 09:11 AM.

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