ENHC surrender 88 vs 10 or A

[Jamie]

When playing ENHC dealer wins all rules (where the dealer doesn't check his hole card on a potential blackjack and wins any double and split stakes), the CVBJ game strategy tables for HiLo with I18 & F4 indexes on a 6 deck game show surrender on 16 but hit on 88 (as 88 doesn't split vs 10 or A due to the dealer taking all).

As well as the tables, the game itself flags an incorrect play when surrendering 88 vs 10.

Why would 88 be considered worth hitting whereas any other 16 is surrender? This seems odd as I would have thought any pair should be treated as its value after the split decision has been ruled out. I note that there are some exceptions to this on 1 or 2 deck games due to effect of removal, but don't understand why this wouldn't be the case for shoe games.

[lohessabb]

I think the general rule is to mentally check whether you can surrender first. The hit for 88 is only valid when you cannot or decide not to surrender.

[Norm]

The strategies in CV come from the books. Rather old books as some of the tables were constructed 30 years ago. This is done because that's what most people use. To include mods for ENHC/ES10, crate a new strategy based on a current strategy and make the changes in the new strategy.

[Cacarulo]

When playing ENHC dealer wins all rules (where the dealer doesn't check his hole card on a potential blackjack and wins any double and split stakes), the CVBJ game strategy tables for HiLo with I18 & F4 indexes on a 6 deck game show surrender on 16 but hit on 88 (as 88 doesn't split vs 10 or A due to the dealer taking all).

As well as the tables, the game itself flags an incorrect play when surrendering 88 vs 10.

Why would 88 be considered worth hitting whereas any other 16 is surrender? This seems odd as I would have thought any pair should be treated as its value after the split decision has been ruled out. I note that there are some exceptions to this on 1 or 2 deck games due to effect of removal, but don't understand why this wouldn't be the case for shoe games.

Hi,

The correct play is to surrender. It's probably a mistake from the books. That's why I prefer to generate my own indices.
CVDATA is ideal for that.

88vT
Standing  =  -57.28258585202567%
Hitting   =  -57.14495014054624%
Doubling  = -114.28990028109247%
Splitting =  -61.59194021860972%
Surrender =  -50.00000000000000%

+------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+---+---+
|     TC     |      Probability      |        Standing       |        Hitting        |        Doubling       |        Splitting      | 1 | 2 |
+------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+---+---+
|          4 |   0.01974806127380787 |  -0.59531532343688132 |  -0.62381031431915668 |  -1.24762062863831336 |  -0.68317688747715444 | R | S |
|          3 |   0.03473402679886555 |  -0.58986105431321612 |  -0.61264474598452634 |  -1.22528949196905268 |  -0.66928458419500958 | R | S |
|          2 |   0.06104036524316535 |  -0.58472863759596605 |  -0.60140079647713984 |  -1.20280159295427969 |  -0.65439664928646779 | R | S |
|          1 |   0.11047331143280217 |  -0.57980288961764093 |  -0.59000790950311000 |  -1.18001581900621999 |  -0.63914411857573028 | R | S |
|          0 |   0.23473474578323381 |  -0.57485136605034048 |  -0.57769918362515549 |  -1.15539836725031098 |  -0.62326350752766069 | R | S |
|         -1 |   0.21114571608455926 |  -0.57096202746007096 |  -0.56743817117684892 |  -1.13487634235369783 |  -0.61003201959906539 | R | H |
|         -2 |   0.13521587918273845 |  -0.56703238850362414 |  -0.55689460666950941 |  -1.11378921333901881 |  -0.59572638531686639 | R | H |
|         -3 |   0.07350057638861991 |  -0.56310981050897779 |  -0.54544230794828474 |  -1.09088461589656949 |  -0.58066056981744185 | R | H |
|         -4 |   0.04250945098179275 |  -0.55944185302575089 |  -0.53393429969462913 |  -1.06786859938925827 |  -0.56583858103780116 | R | H |
|         -5 |   0.02320500815022794 |  -0.55609874199647646 |  -0.52232714991080986 |  -1.04465429982161973 |  -0.55134942611015958 | R | H |
|         -6 |   0.01359266757379409 |  -0.55305019287844459 |  -0.51077218697565274 |  -1.02154437395130548 |  -0.53726729697468634 | R | H |
|         -7 |   0.00737994056577261 |  -0.55031357678402881 |  -0.49901664218854180 |  -0.99803328437708361 |  -0.52335318489494609 |   | H |
|         -8 |   0.00417153670028487 |  -0.54786679594704168 |  -0.48724208067799479 |  -0.97448416135598959 |  -0.50973338394046075 |   | H |
+------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+-----------------------+---+---+

Note that the surrender index for 88vT is "-6" and if surrender is not allowed, you should stand if the index is greater than or equal to zero.

Sincerely,
Cac

[Jamie]

Thanks. That's what I thought. So for ENHC HiLo, this should be copied from HiLo, with any doubles or splits vs 10 or A removed except for AA, which should allow split vs A. Any pairs that were previously split should revert to their value decision.

[DSchles]

with any doubles or splits vs 10 or A removed except for AA, which should allow split vs A.

No, which should allow split vs. T.

Don

[Jamie]

Thanks. Also Ace?

[Cacarulo]

Thanks. Also Ace?

No, the only thing allowed is to split AAvT as Don well said.

Sincerely,
Cac

[Ole]

As validated on page 314 of Don and Dave's new book:

For ENHC/ES, basic strategy directs splitting a pair of aces against dealer up cards of 2 through Ten only, but not against an Ace.
The Hi-Lo provides no index to deviate from that A,AvA play.

Cheers,
Ole

[Jamie]

Thanks. Quite difficult to get Don's books in the UK. I am still trying to get BJA3. Hopefully BJA and the new book will be available on kindle at some point.