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Thread: 7 card Charlie where automatic win pays 2:1

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    7 card Charlie where automatic win pays 2:1

    I'm using CV software trying to build a strategy where any non-busted hand of 7 cards automatically wins vs any dealer hand AND pays 2 to 1. In the bonuses section, it seems I can only do one or the other.

    After searching the forums here, I found I can assemble a multi-strategy. I put in basic strategy for my rules of:
    6D, 75% PEN (78 cards cut off), H17, DAS, RSA, Surrender allowed. (US rules--not ENHC)

    On the page regarding player number of cards, I learned to input different strategies for those. (If the player has a six-card 14v2, the player should obviously hit for a roughly 7/13 chance at not busting and getting the 2:1 payout bonus.

    Since this is CVData, it should be finding BS for these scenarios and not just using the strategies I input, right? Does it even matter what strategy I assign at this stage?

    With it set to six decks in the previous steps, am I just wasting my time separating single deck and multi-deck or is this preventing the program from somehow clumping different numbers of decks together when it determines the strategy?

  2. #2


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    Disclosure: This is for what I believe is SG Gaming's Table Master Fusion seen here:
    https://www.sggaming.com/Games/Shuff...er-Fusion-7779

  3. #3
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FormerFeeler View Post
    I'm using CV software trying to build a strategy where any non-busted hand of 7 cards automatically wins vs any dealer hand AND pays 2 to 1. In the bonuses section, it seems I can only do one or the other.
    Never thought of that. I'll need to make a simpler way to do this. Only way I can think of now is to have a bonus set to Automatic win and Hands Win to 1. Five more bonuses for tied 17 through tied 21 with Hands Win set to 0 each paying 2:1. And another bonus set to pays 3:1. (This will be a 3:1 bonus minus the loss for a total of 2:1.) However, I can't imagine that this bonus is worth looking into as seven card, non-busted hands are too rare.

    Quote Originally Posted by FormerFeeler View Post
    Since this is CVData, it should be finding BS for these scenarios and not just using the strategies I input, right?
    Strategy generation and simulation must be separate processes as there are so many methods of beating a game.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Now that I think of it; makes sense to add a function to create a strategy for each number of cards in one's hand in the same run for this kind of bonus
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  5. #5


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    Wong's Basic Blackjack covers this. On page 84, he writes that the 7-card automatic win is worth close to zero. On pages 92-93, he gives the complete basic strategy for the 2:1, automatic-win payoff.

    As always, these things may be worth exploring from a theoretical point of view, but, as Norm mentioned, the value to the player is virtually zero.

    Don

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    I'm a little unclear on how you described your solution, so a few quick questions:

    Would adding two identical bonuses that auto win on exactly 7 cards totaling <22 solve the problem?

    Would you still get the win/loss as a result of the hand? (Said another way: if the 7th card gives player 21 and the dealer has 20, does the player get paid again because 21>20?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Now that I think of it; makes sense to add a function to create a strategy for each number of cards in one's hand in the same run for this kind of bonus
    If the win/loss above is an issue, if the multi-strategy for a CVCX sim was set to hit at any time the player hand had 7+ cards (until you bust) it would result in losing the initial bet, so adding a third bonus of auto win, 7 card, <22 to pay for the bust would cancel that out. This could ensure the money won/lost is correct, but would make the win percentages inaccurate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Now that I think of it; makes sense to add a function to create a strategy for each number of cards in one's hand in the same run for this kind of bonus
    Oh, it looks like that's not even an option in CVCX. ???

    What does "Assemble a multi-strategy" in CVData under the Playing tab actually supposed to do?

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    That allows you to create a set of strategies which are switched during play according to:

    Current Depth
    Bankroll
    Cards in hand
    Nextcard to be dealt

    For betting, the same but for:
    Depth
    Bankroll
    Alternate between strategies every round.

    Clicking on the blue ? on most every screen will explain that screen.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FormerFeeler View Post
    Would adding two identical bonuses that auto win on exactly 7 cards totaling <22 solve the problem?
    No. You can test these things using the Debug function on the Nuances screen.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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