# Thread: Double Down on Soft 12

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Originally Posted by Norm
Okay, did what you said. I will try again.

Attachment 4830

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## Try Again

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OK, so they get an A for effort, but having a line for doubling soft 12 is an obvious mistake.

Don

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Originally Posted by Midwest Player
Now I see it well, but as Don says, there is a line in the drawing that is a mistake. Crossing out that line the rest is correct.

Sincerely,
Cac

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Took me a while to realize that only way to have "Soft 12" is "A-A" ...

I would say that if you are genius and can do perfect counting all cards or maybe some bizzare counting system, there would be situations, where is acutaly better to HIT on AA Than SPLIT, especialy with rule that you cannot hit splitted Aces, but definitelly its better to split Aces than DD on them(Ofc if you 100% know that 9 is coming.... )

There could be rule, than you can DD on Splited Aces, but I doubt that, the Edge casino would loose would be enormous...

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Originally Posted by Zabut
I would say that if you are genius and can do perfect counting all cards or maybe some bizzare counting system, there would be situations, where is acutaly better to HIT on AA Than SPLIT,
You don't need a bizarre system to do this. All point count systems will tell you not to split aces vs. 8, 9, T, and Ace, with reasonably attainable negative true counts. For Hi-Lo, for example, those values are -9, -8, -9, and -4, respectively. As often discussed, note that Wong's indices are all one higher, as he truncated, and I floored.

Don

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Originally Posted by Zabut
There could be rule, than you can DD on Splited Aces, but I doubt that, the Edge casino would loose would be enormous...
Some casinos allow you to double down on split aces. I can think of a couple in MI. Kewadin Casino and Turtle Creek casino. I'm assuming they still have this rule. In fact they allowed double down for less as long as it met the table min.

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i have a similar question too. one of the online bj i play here in asia, they allow you to hit or double down after split aces but not re-split them. should i double down when the dealer has 4, 5, 6?

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Originally Posted by hwjman
i have a similar question too. one of the online bj i play here in asia, they allow you to hit or double down after split aces but not re-split them. should i double down when the dealer has 4, 5, 6?
When resplitting is not allowed, Double A-A vs 6 (if allowed) if:
(s17) number of decks <= 12
(h17) always
otherwise hit

When resplitting is not allowed, Double A-A vs 5 (if allowed) if:
(s17) decks <= 2
(h17) decks <= 2
otherwise hit

hit A-A vs 4 if resplit is not allowed, do not double

k_c

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Don

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Originally Posted by DSchles

Don
Sorry Don, why do you say that the answer does not correspond to the question?
If you are not allowed to re-split aces but you are allowed to hit or double down after splitting the first pair of aces dealt, I think K_C's answer is correct.
In that case we are facing a true soft-12.

Sincerely,
Cac

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Originally Posted by hwjman
have a similar question too. one of the online bj i play here in asia, they allow you to hit or double down after split aces but not re-split them. should i double down when the dealer has 4, 5, 6?
You don't state the rules, but for using 6D S17 I get the following indices to double A,A when you can't split:

A,A vs 3: +9
A,A vs 4: +4
A,A vs 5: +1
A,A vs 6: 0

For 6D H17, I get

A,A vs 3: +8
A,A vs 4: +4
A,A vs 5: +1
A,A vs 6: 0

These data were extracted from the sims I ran to generate indices for the upcoming book from Don and I. Too be fair, though, these specific plays are not discussed.

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I should add the the above is for games where you can hit after splitting aces, as hwjman stated. It is not the same as the UP Michigan games MWP described, where your only choices are to double or stand. You can find the correct strategy for those games at

https://wizardofodds.com/games/black...plitting-aces/

Note that for most hands which you would normally hit, the correct strategy is to double for as little as possible.

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