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Thread: N0 When Backcounting

  1. #11
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Rounds played should include time looking for a new table, which depends on the casino, dealers, time of day, etc. That's why it isn't set automatically. You need to estimate the rounds played per hour based on the situation and experience.

    No is based on rounds played.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  2. #12


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Rounds played should include time looking for a new table, which depends on the casino, dealers, time of day, etc. That's why it isn't set automatically. You need to estimate the rounds played per hour based on the situation and experience.

    No is based on rounds played.
    In the sim I used the Find Table delay feature. But there seems to be a contradiction between what you are saying and the CVCX help screen. You are saying all the stats on the results screen are based upon rounds played. On the other hand, CVCX says the following--"Hands per Hour ? Number of rounds observed at the table. If you are back-counting, this includes skipped rounds." Which is it?

  3. #13
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Actually, depends on whether you are using the old method of setting backcounting after the sim, or the new way of setting pre-sim. Have a meeting in 11 minutes and will respond later.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  4. #14
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Sorry, bad wording on my part. As the Help says, rounds observed.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  5. #15


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    So this entire thread you meant to say rounds observed instead of rounds played?

    In my particular situation, I have reverse wonging set so I play right off the top and leave at bad counts. I set the find table delay at 10 rounds. So if RPH is set to 70 and hands played is 50%, does that mean I actually play 35 rounds less 10 per hour?

    Going back to my initial question, all the stats on the results screen are really based on rounds dealt per hour, correct? Some of those I will play, and others I'll miss. But no rounds are "observed" which is the case with conventional backcounting.

    MJ

  6. #16
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJ1 View Post
    But no rounds are "observed" which is the case with conventional backcounting.
    All rounds you see are observed.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  7. #17


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    All rounds you see are observed.
    Your definition is ambiguous. Every round played is a round you see. Does that mean rounds played and rounds observed are the same? Surely not. I think you mean to say an observed round is a round seen but not played.

    Going back to my simulation, do the rounds missed due to find table delay count toward the WRH and N0?

    On a separate note, I just noticed that the EV% for each running count differ when the find table delay feature is on as opposed to off. Obviously the Frequency for each count will be different, but why should EV% differ? The advantage at each count is fixed given a rule set and # decks. How often you encounter a certain count should have no bearing on EV%. Why the difference?

    MJ

  8. #18
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJ1 View Post
    Your definition is ambiguous. Every round played is a round you see. Does that mean rounds played and rounds observed are the same? Surely not. I think you mean to say an observed round is a round seen but not played.
    To observe is to see and usually take note of, whether or note you play it. A backcounter observes before playing as well as during.

    Quote Originally Posted by MJ1 View Post
    Going back to my simulation, do the rounds missed due to find table delay count toward the WRH and N0?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by MJ1 View Post
    why should EV% differ?
    Keep in mind that more rounds must be run when wonging to reduce the standard error since many of the rounds are not played and therefore not in the stats. This is particularly true for the more rare TCs. You would need to run a massive number of rounds to get exactly the same EVs per TC.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  9. #19


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Keep in mind that more rounds must be run when wonging to reduce the standard error since many of the rounds are not played and therefore not in the stats. This is particularly true for the more rare TCs. You would need to run a massive number of rounds to get exactly the same EVs per TC.
    I am trying to generate optimal departure points for a reverse wonging sim with KO. How many rounds do you suggest I run per sim?

    Why does CVCX require every deck have a departure point on the Wonging screen? I am trying to figure out the ODPs one deck at a time. To get around this constraint, I am simply using a ridiculously low departure point for decks 2-6.

    MJ

  10. #20
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Number of rounds depends on percentage of rounds played. But, several billion should do.

    CVCX does not require a different departure point by deck. It allows it. Just turn the option off if you don't want to use it.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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