Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 14 to 26 of 30

Thread: N0 When Backcounting

  1. #14
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The mote in God's eye
    Posts
    12,461
    Blog Entries
    59


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Sorry, bad wording on my part. As the Help says, rounds observed.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  2. #15


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    So this entire thread you meant to say rounds observed instead of rounds played?

    In my particular situation, I have reverse wonging set so I play right off the top and leave at bad counts. I set the find table delay at 10 rounds. So if RPH is set to 70 and hands played is 50%, does that mean I actually play 35 rounds less 10 per hour?

    Going back to my initial question, all the stats on the results screen are really based on rounds dealt per hour, correct? Some of those I will play, and others I'll miss. But no rounds are "observed" which is the case with conventional backcounting.

    MJ

  3. #16
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The mote in God's eye
    Posts
    12,461
    Blog Entries
    59


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by MJ1 View Post
    But no rounds are "observed" which is the case with conventional backcounting.
    All rounds you see are observed.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  4. #17


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    All rounds you see are observed.
    Your definition is ambiguous. Every round played is a round you see. Does that mean rounds played and rounds observed are the same? Surely not. I think you mean to say an observed round is a round seen but not played.

    Going back to my simulation, do the rounds missed due to find table delay count toward the WRH and N0?

    On a separate note, I just noticed that the EV% for each running count differ when the find table delay feature is on as opposed to off. Obviously the Frequency for each count will be different, but why should EV% differ? The advantage at each count is fixed given a rule set and # decks. How often you encounter a certain count should have no bearing on EV%. Why the difference?

    MJ

  5. #18
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The mote in God's eye
    Posts
    12,461
    Blog Entries
    59


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by MJ1 View Post
    Your definition is ambiguous. Every round played is a round you see. Does that mean rounds played and rounds observed are the same? Surely not. I think you mean to say an observed round is a round seen but not played.
    To observe is to see and usually take note of, whether or note you play it. A backcounter observes before playing as well as during.

    Quote Originally Posted by MJ1 View Post
    Going back to my simulation, do the rounds missed due to find table delay count toward the WRH and N0?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by MJ1 View Post
    why should EV% differ?
    Keep in mind that more rounds must be run when wonging to reduce the standard error since many of the rounds are not played and therefore not in the stats. This is particularly true for the more rare TCs. You would need to run a massive number of rounds to get exactly the same EVs per TC.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  6. #19


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Keep in mind that more rounds must be run when wonging to reduce the standard error since many of the rounds are not played and therefore not in the stats. This is particularly true for the more rare TCs. You would need to run a massive number of rounds to get exactly the same EVs per TC.
    I am trying to generate optimal departure points for a reverse wonging sim with KO. How many rounds do you suggest I run per sim?

    Why does CVCX require every deck have a departure point on the Wonging screen? I am trying to figure out the ODPs one deck at a time. To get around this constraint, I am simply using a ridiculously low departure point for decks 2-6.

    MJ

  7. #20
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The mote in God's eye
    Posts
    12,461
    Blog Entries
    59


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Number of rounds depends on percentage of rounds played. But, several billion should do.

    CVCX does not require a different departure point by deck. It allows it. Just turn the option off if you don't want to use it.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  8. #21


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    CVCX does not require a different departure point by deck. It allows it. Just turn the option off if you don't want to use it.
    I wish to use the option, however I would prefer not to enter a departure point for every deck. The software requires a value be entered for decks 2-6. If I leave those cells blank a message pops up that says "invalid numeric".

    MJ

  9. #22
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The mote in God's eye
    Posts
    12,461
    Blog Entries
    59


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Turn off Wong by Depth.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  10. #23


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    MJ1, for what it's worth...

    I always do my Wong in sims using 100 rounds per hour and "no delay" to find a table. That means my results are for 100 rounds observed and played. Say you wong in at +2, you will see an EV/hour that correspond to the 15 rounds you played AND the 85 you just "observed".

    Say your sim shows an average bet of $300 and an EV of 1.5%
    For 100 such hands you should have an EV of $300 x 100 x 1.5% = $450 BUT CVCX will give you a Win/Hour of $67.50 because even if you "observe" 100 rounds you only played 15.
    If 3 spotters are working for a BP, you do the following:

    Ask yourself how many times the BP WILL NOT PLAY AT ALL.
    If he plays 15% of the rounds on each table, that means he doesn't play on one table 85% of the time. So how many times will he not play at all ? It's 0.85 x 0.85 x 0.85 = 0.61
    If he doesn't play at all 61% of the time, that means he's busy with a spotter 39% of the times. So instead of playing 15 hands per hour, he will play 39 or 2.6 times more.
    Your EV with 3 spotters comes to 2.6 x $67.5 = $175.50/hour

    I hope this helps a little.
    G Man

  11. #24


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    Turn off Wong by Depth.
    That makes sense, but what happens when I wish to enter departure points for decks 1 and 2 of a 6 deck shoe? Remember, I am using trial and error to find the ODP for each deck in the shoe. Once I find the ODP for the first deck, then I use that number and run simulations to find the ODP for each subsequent deck in the shoe. It doesn't appear that CVCX permits setting departure points for just a couple of decks in the shoe. It requires that ALL decks be assigned a departure point when Wong by Depth is set. Why is that?

    MJ

  12. #25
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The mote in God's eye
    Posts
    12,461
    Blog Entries
    59


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Just set the other decks to -99 if you don't want to leave during those decks. It must know what you want.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  13. #26


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Thanks, one other question. This might sound silly, but how does force shuffle on exit impact results if one has the find table delay feature turned on?

    If FSOE is turned off but FTD is on, then at poor counts the player will remain at the shoe observing rounds but not playing until the shuffle, then they will lose even more rounds due to FTD, correct?

    MJ

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Backcounting
    By Crutoy37 in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-26-2017, 06:03 PM
  2. Backcounting and N0
    By RoadWarrior in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 09-12-2014, 03:05 PM
  3. pm: KO backcounting...
    By pm in forum Blackjack Beginners
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-07-2004, 03:08 PM
  4. Seven: Red 7 backcounting
    By Seven in forum Blackjack Main
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 08-05-2002, 09:03 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

About Blackjack: The Forum

BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.