WTF, are there AO2 DD Changes

[ploppiesstand16]

Help me please, I've been banging my head against the wall on this one:

Can anyone shed some light on AO2 indices for a DD/H17/DAS/Double any hand/Late Sr/Split Aces Once game, with 58% Penetration. I know that the indicies are supposed to be applicable to any deck game since adjusted by remaining decks to a TC value but my mind is still rejecting some of the deviation values for DD gameplay.

From my own analysis basic strategy deviates from ao2 even within a TC of -1:+1 for some hands, which would make sense for a single deck game with similar rules but not for some double deck hands.

For example:
Basic Strat(same rules as stated above, ref. wizardofodds.com): A,7 v 2 -->Double
AO2 (rules stated above, ref. BlackJackForBlood): A,7 v 2 --> Stand TC <2

One would think that basic strategy reflects decisions that are independent of any knowledge of previous events (cards played), and in doing so would be suggesting in basic strategy those decisions that are best (Greatest Playing Efficiency) when the TC = 0. So the question I am asking surrounds the discrepancy that occurs in the example given and others as well, I might be incorrect in my thinking so please feel more than welcome to set me straight. I was getting frustrated with some of the indices in AO2 for Double deck gameplay and was thinking I might need to run some simulations to see if the indices are correct for DD/H17/DAS/Double any hand/Late Sr/Split Aces Once. If someone can either help me see the light, or even better run some simulations to ensure there is no modifications needed for the indices when used on the DD game being described that would be extremely helpful.

Thanks in advanced.

[Cacarulo]

The index for A7v2 => DD if TC >= +1

Sincerely,
Cac

[Jack Jackson]

Help me please, I've been banging my head against the wall on this one:

Can anyone shed some light on AO2 indices for a DD/H17/DAS/Double any hand/Late Sr/Split Aces Once game, with 58% Penetration. I know that the indicies are supposed to be applicable to any deck game since adjusted by remaining decks to a TC value but my mind is still rejecting some of the deviation values for DD gameplay.

From my own analysis basic strategy deviates from ao2 even within a TC of -1:+1 for some hands, which would make sense for a single deck game with similar rules but not for some double deck hands.

For example:
Basic Strat(same rules as stated above, ref. wizardofodds.com): A,7 v 2 -->Double
AO2 (rules stated above, ref. BlackJackForBlood): A,7 v 2 --> Stand TC <2

One would think that basic strategy reflects decisions that are independent of any knowledge of previous events (cards played), and in doing so would be suggesting in basic strategy those decisions that are best (Greatest Playing Efficiency) when the TC = 0. So the question I am asking surrounds the discrepancy that occurs in the example given and others as well, I might be incorrect in my thinking so please feel more than welcome to set me straight. I was getting frustrated with some of the indices in AO2 for Double deck gameplay and was thinking I might need to run some simulations to see if the indices are correct for DD/H17/DAS/Double any hand/Late Sr/Split Aces Once. If someone can either help me see the light, or even better run some simulations to ensure there is no modifications needed for the indices when used on the DD game being described that would be extremely helpful.

Thanks in advanced.

Its not just Ao2, every system will have their changes in the number of decks in-play. The changes are primarily between 1 and 2 decks and 2 and 6 decks. 4 and 8 deckers of course use the 6 deck rule. You may also notice theres a bigger change between 1 and 2 decks "than" there is between 2 and 6.

1 deck and 6 deck blackjack are two completely different games. Generally speaking you'll want to bet more, split more, double more and insure more when playing single deck. You get more blackjacks when playing single deck as well. This is where floating advantage is born.

[ploppiesstand16]

Right, thanks for the updated deviation. The AO2 Table in CVBJ shows A,7v2 DD >= 2, but you updated it to >= 1. Is there a way to get an entire list of deviations that are refined for double deck play using AO2 DAS Double on any, H17. Seems as though there are some much needed deviation index changes.

Another example being 4,4v5 where wizard of odds for DD H17 DAS, reflects basic as Ph (split unless you cannot das then hit), but A02 for this situation states 4,4v5 --> P when TC >=3. This would mean that the basic strategy play is far from the actual best possible playing efficiency even without any prior round/delt cards knowledge.

I feel as though the AO2 play in this example should be closer to DD if TC >= 1 or that the basic strategy should be to hit. One or the other seems as though it should be modified. If anyone has a more exact Double Deck Ao2 Strategy chart, or can simulate one, that would be very helpful. Thanks guys.

[Norm]

CVBJ just includes the indices in the books as that's what most people use.

[Cacarulo]

Right, thanks for the updated deviation. The AO2 Table in CVBJ shows A,7v2 DD >= 2, but you updated it to >= 1. Is there a way to get an entire list of deviations that are refined for double deck play using AO2 DAS Double on any, H17. Seems as though there are some much needed deviation index changes.

Another example being 4,4v5 where wizard of odds for DD H17 DAS, reflects basic as Ph (split unless you cannot das then hit), but A02 for this situation states 4,4v5 --> P when TC >=3. This would mean that the basic strategy play is far from the actual best possible playing efficiency even without any prior round/delt cards knowledge.

I feel as though the AO2 play in this example should be closer to DD if TC >= 1 or that the basic strategy should be to hit. One or the other seems as though it should be modified. If anyone has a more exact Double Deck Ao2 Strategy chart, or can simulate one, that would be very helpful. Thanks guys.

Perhaps my answer was a bit confusing. Actually we could say that for A7v2 there are two answers:
1) DD is the basic strategy as correctly stated by the Wizard and as it appears in BJA3.
2) The index is also +1, which matches the basic strategy: TC = +2 / 101 * 52 = +1.03 or +1. Otherwise you should STAND and not HIT.

Edited: Therefore, forget about the basic strategy and play by the index.

In 44v5, SPLIT is the correct BS. Otherwise HIT.
Edited #2: Actually the correct index is -3. So you should split if TC >= -3 (floored). Again, forget about BS.

Sincerely,
Cac

PS: I have never made so many typos in a single post. Now I'm sure this is the final version.

[texrex]

The DD basic strategy for A7 vs 2 is stand therefore the index of 1 or 2 makes sense.