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Thread: Question on deviations

  1. #1


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    Question on deviations

    Hi all,

    I currently only know 8 deviations and I'd like to memorise the I-18 as a next step, I have a copy of PBJ with the charts I require, but how do I know what deviations add the most EV?

    Is it simply a case of the deviations at the smaller TCs are most valuable and should be learned first? Are positive TC deviations more important than negative TC deviations as that is when you have more chips on the table?

    Furthermore, does anyone know if it's possible to view the EV impact of each index inside CVCX?

    More generally, as rules between tables we play can be different, different decks and pen. Doesn't that mean that the indices we memorise are in constant flux? Most may stay the same, but some rules require subtle changes in the deviations, much like in basic strategy?

    Kind Regards

  2. #2


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    Depends on the context asked. Even negative indexes are important.
    Is it simply a case of the deviations at the smaller TCs are most valuable and should be learned first?
    Assuming you play all - most frequent indexes are negative indexes and indexes up to TC 1. They add EV simply because they help you lose less money (15,16 v 10 and 9) They're the most frequent because this category comprise 70-80% of rounds (depending on cut) played.

    Are positive TC deviations more important than negative TC deviations as that is when you have more chips on the table?
    In general, any positive index, whether defensive or offensive will EV at a higher value per incident than negative indexes. From a frequency perspective, indexes such as 8v6 or 5 at + 1 and 3 respectively, 99v7 (+3) are bread and butter plays.

    The plays that add EV at faster rates than any other are splitting 10’s v 4,5,6. and 10 v 10). That’s when you have your max or super max bet out. Most players don’t split 10’s for longevity reasons (including me), but I will double 10 v 10 depending on where I’m at.

    The most valuable index of all based on frequency of occurrence combined with dollars on table is insurance.

    I have a copy of PBJ with the charts I require
    PBJ quotes indexes at strike point. Plays made right at strike point will add very little over the years. For most players, especially newer players - should learn the concept of Risk Averse indexes, especially for the higher numbered indexes.

    More generally, as rules between tables we play can be different, different decks and pen.
    Basically, very little if any difference on indexes based in rule set, excepting those play decisions not allowed on certain rule sets. Deck pen is very important as positive index play frequency is reduced on lower pen shoes.
    BRING BACK ZEE

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthWest_UK View Post
    I currently only know 8 deviations and I'd like to memorise the I-18 as a next step, I have a copy of PBJ with the charts I require, but how do I know what deviations add the most EV?
    Do you also have BJA3? The I18 plays were ranked in order of importance. Of course, that was for one set of rules, number of decks, and bet spread. Naturally, changing those parameters can change both the plays themselves and their rankings. Gronbog and I are currently working on a rather large project in that regard.

    But, for now, know that you aren't going to go very wrong learning the original I18 plus four more (that I labeled the Catch 22): doubling 8 vs. 5 and 6 and A,8 vs. 5 and 6, and, of course, the Fab 4 for surrender.

    Don

  4. #4


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    Thanks both for the responses.

    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    Do you also have BJA3? The I18 plays were ranked in order of importance. Of course, that was for one set of rules, number of decks, and bet spread. Naturally, changing those parameters can change both the plays themselves and their rankings. Gronbog and I are currently working on a rather large project in that regard.

    But, for now, know that you aren't going to go very wrong learning the original I18 plus four more (that I labeled the Catch 22): doubling 8 vs. 5 and 6 and A,8 vs. 5 and 6, and, of course, the Fab 4 for surrender.

    Don
    I don't have BJA3 unfortunately, but I have looked up some tables online and found references to I-18, most of the plays are valid for the game I am playing, but the problem I've got is that I'm playing no hole card and some of the TCs mentioned are slightly different to page 82 of PBJ for those hands. I assume I follow what the book says as that applies to my game?

    Furthermore, no hole card says to never DD 10/11 against an A which also knocks out some of the I-18 deviations. PBJ says to always hit those and only DD 11 against 10 with a TC >= 4

    Thanks for the Catch 22 recommendation, I shall be adding these to my arsenal.

    Unfortunately, Sr isn't offered in the games I currently have access to. So I'll memorise these for when the time comes.

    Kind Regards

  5. #5


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    but the problem I've got is that I'm playing no hole card and some of the TCs mentioned are slightly different to page 82 of PBJ for those hands. I assume I follow what the book says as that applies to my game?
    Are you playing ENHC where you lose all splits doubles etc. against dealer BJ, or NHC as found in Canada. I assume the former based on your handle.

    Alison, the probable reason the indexes are slightly different is that the planet uses floored indexes while Wong truncated. Accordingly, the differences are likely only on the negative indexes.
    Last edited by Freightman; 06-20-2022 at 02:25 PM.
    BRING BACK ZEE

  6. #6


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    Quote Originally Posted by Freightman View Post
    Are you playing ENHC where you lose all splits doubles etc. against dealer BJ, or NHC as found in Canada. I assume the former based on your handle.

    Alison, the probable reason the indexes are slightly different is that the planet uses floored indexes while Wong truncated. Accordingly, the differences are likely only on the negative indexes.
    Correct, it's ENHC, dealer wins all.

    You are right, the negative indices are where the differences are, with the exception of the DD 10 and 11 vs A which I believe is due to the ENHC rule.

    Kind Regards

  7. #7


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    You are right, the negative indices are where the differences are, with the exception of the DD 10 and 11 vs A which I believe is due to the ENHC rule.
    In simplest terms, truncation rounds TOWARDS zero. So, as Wong truncated
    All plus true counts - floored and truncated values are both reduced to the same full integer value.
    Examples towards 0 decimals 1.5145 to 1, 2.65 to 2, 0.6587 to 0

    All minus true counts - floored and truncated values differ
    -.6506 floors to -1 and truncates to 0
    -1.678 floors to -2 and truncates to -1
    BRING BACK ZEE

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