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Thread: Indexes

  1. #1


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    Indexes

    Hi all,

    I use RA indices and have even rounded one or two of them either up or down to make some numbers easier to remember quickly (ensuring they’re still above max EV index of course), and therefore this doesn’t bother me too much, but still it’s something I’m curious about.

    I’ve extracted the indices out of Professional Blackjack in the ‘no hole card’ chapter and have done my best to mimic the conditions using CVData, but I still get some different indices and am wondering peoples thoughts on this, should they not be identical if run correctly?

    I have used the benchmark rules and conditions from the book as stated in chapter 1 –
    Six decks
    One deck cut
    S17
    No DAS but double any two first cards
    Split up to four hands
    Ace splits one card only
    Insurance offered with no other side bets
    No surrender
    3:2 BJ
    High-Low
    Max bet at True +4

    Chapter 3 also mentions truncating is used in the book so this has been selected for TC division
    I’ve used quarter deck resolution at all depths and ‘round’ deck estimation, I’ve run the index generation with ‘beat to death’ selected.
    Playing strategy is using a custom Basic Strategy I created which I believe is correct for ENHC no DAS, S17, six decks

    As one example, I consistently get these indexes different to the book –
    Split 10’s vs 4 at +7 (book says +6), split 10’s vs 6 at +5 (book says +4). This is simply one arbitrary example.

    I’m sure back when this book was written different software (if any) was used etc. I’m just curious for something that is non-opinionated and highly mathematical why my indices are coming out different to those published in this book. The differences are small, but if I’m doing something wrong I want to identify it.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    -The indices in PBJ are not RA indices.
    -Are you generating the same number of indices as in PBJ?
    -PBJ used a method of generation called "sampling with replacement" which is less accurate. Not surprising as they were generated on a PC of that era; which was incredibly slow compared to today's PCs. Indices from that era for Hi-Opt II were generated on a multi-million dollar IBM mainframe.

    My current PC has 32,000 times the memory of my first. In fact, if has over 100,000 times the memory of the first mainframe I used. In those days, you could open up the six foot tall memory unit and see the individual cores for each bit.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  3. #3


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    As one example, I consistently get these indexes different to the book –
    Split 10’s vs 4 at +7 (book says +6), split 10’s vs 6 at +5 (book says +4). This is simply one arbitrary example.
    2 things to check:

    a) I think PBJ uses 4 decks.
    b) In CVDATA, set the calculation of decks remaining to the "Exact Card" instead of to the "Nearest Half".

    Sincerely,
    Cac

  4. #4


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    Ha thanks Norm.
    I did think it could just be advancement of technology. I'm confident all settings are correct.

    Im absolutely aware they're not RA indices and I was not generating RA indices, I just merely stated that I generally use them and therefore max EV index generations being different by one value aren't much of a concern really.

    I have not been pedantic on ensuring I run the exact same combinations for each sim. I've run sims with everything selected, and I've run sims with small sections selected, but not the exact combinations as used in PBJ and limited to between minus and plus 10 such as the book does, I'll try that next out of curiousity.

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by Duc939 View Post
    Thanks. The book states 6 decks in chapterr one under benchmark rules. Trying exact card might be a point. Nowhere in the book does it say what was used in terms of divisor so I figured quarter deck was safe, but that is a possible variable for sure.
    Try it and let me know.

    Sincerely,
    Cac

  6. #6


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    Hmm second time this forum has deleted my post when I just tried to edit a spelling error using an android device, good thing you got to it in time.
    I will do that and get back to you.

  7. #7
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    If you're talking about resolution, generally speaking, old sims used exact cards remaining for speed and simplicity. Divides were incredibly slow back then. The guy that designed the IBM 360-91 floating point circuitry ended up in an asylum and nobody else could figure out the design.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  8. #8


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    A bit off topic, but the mechanics of index generation have always been the area in BJ that i understood the least, unless i am mistaken i don't recall seeing any published work with algorithmic details on how's it's done. All i remember is that Norm uses a proprietary combination of sims and combinatorial analysis :grin:. I would like to explore this area a bit more as i think it could benefit from GPU parallel computing
    Chance favors the prepared mind

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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    My current PC has 32,000 times the memory of my first.
    Do you recall that Bill gates quote from the mid-80s, when he said more than 640K of RAM will never be needed?

  10. #10
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Actually, I think GPU parallel computing may be less useful for index generation than for simulation due to index interrelationships.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    Do you recall that Bill gates quote from the mid-80s, when he said more than 640K of RAM will never be needed?
    And IBM's T.J. Watson said "I think there is a world market for about five computers."

    Digital Equipment Corp. founder Ken Olsen said: "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home."
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  12. #12


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    Back in 2001 I had a pentium 4 and 1GB Ram I thought i was king of the world
    Chance favors the prepared mind

  13. #13
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Ages ago, IBM loaned me a large laptop which had the first Intel chip with built-in floating point. The PC was not yet announced. I took it on a trip to Brazil and the business folk on the plane oohed and aahed over it. Then I hit customs. It was illegal at that time to import PCs to Brazil. Took a while to convince them it was just a loaner and I wasn't selling it or making any business deals. In all my business trips, I declared pleasure instead of business.

    When I got back and returned the loaner to IBM; I said it was great, but you should make a portable version. It was quite heavy.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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