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Thread: Quality degradation

  1. #14


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    When a moderator closes a thread for no valid reason and goes as far as saying that my post is stupid,while it is correct that is also very confrontational Norm. It is totally unacceptable. You did not answer my questions on that matter either. My intent is not about being confrontational but about having an open minded discussion in a respectful tone on precise numbers. I'll provide the answers requested later tonight. Quite busy this afternoon too.

  2. #15
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    The thread was closed because it was filled with misinformation, claims without foundation, and snide remarks (some deleted). Basically, it was pushing a concept long known to comprise voodoo thinking. Your claims made no sense to either ICNT or me and were made without any explanation. A new thread was allowed without the baggage of the older thread.

    Perhaps this old cartoon is more on point:

    miraclehappens.jpg
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  3. #16


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    Quote Originally Posted by Secretariat View Post
    When a moderator closes a thread for no valid reason and goes as far as saying that my post is stupid,while it is correct that is also very confrontational Norm. It is totally unacceptable. You did not answer my questions on that matter either. My intent is not about being confrontational but about having an open minded discussion in a respectful tone on precise numbers. I'll provide the answers requested later tonight. Quite busy this afternoon too.
    I dont feel like getting sucked in into this endless discussion but I will reiterate again the main point

    1) For a standard game of blackjack with no bet bonus on dealer's busting, dealer bust rate is an irrelevant figure and no playing decision or betting decision should be made based on that. Your playing and betting decisions should be made based on the index of the strategy you are using.

    2) You CANNOT cherry pick one shoe composition to extrapolate and make general assumptions about the game of blackjack. This has been indicated to you by Don, Norm on several occasions. That's not how a complex and seriously not linear game of blackjack works. Index generation is a mathematically complicated task that involves simming hundreds of millions of shoe compositions.

    3) You never seem to be interested in having a genuine discussion, you continue to make false claims without any attempt to accept what's been indicated to you.
    Chance favors the prepared mind

  4. #17
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    0 out of 2 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I realized yesterday that ICountNTrack is a forum admin.

  5. #18
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secretariat View Post
    When a moderator closes a thread for no valid reason and goes as far as saying that my post is stupid,while it is correct that is also very confrontational Norm. It is totally unacceptable. You did not answer my questions on that matter either. My intent is not about being confrontational but about having an open minded discussion in a respectful tone on precise numbers. I'll provide the answers requested later tonight. Quite busy this afternoon too.
    >Your continued claim that it is without "valid reason" is incorrect. I don't know why you fail to understand this.
    >Your claim that calling a post stupid is the same as suggesting that I "know" what I'm saying is false -- in essence calling me a liar, is way off base. Wikipedia has a very long essay on what is a personal attack. You wrongly accused me of lying. That is a personal attack. ICNT said your "post" was stupid, not that you were stupid. Please realize the difference between calling a person stupid and calling a post stupid. I call myself an idiot several times a day. I have certainly made stupid posts and thank anyone pointing such out. How else does one quickly learn? Indeed, look at the bottom of my post where I call myself an idiot.

    Realize that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. You are arguing against folks with decades of research behind them. Doesn't mean we are correct. New ideas are welcome. But, when they go against already covered ground -- expect negative feedback.
    Further, realize that we are constantly attacked for blocking people and for not blocking people. Sometimes by the very same posters.
    Last edited by Norm; 02-14-2022 at 05:53 PM.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  6. #19


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    Quote Originally Posted by Norm View Post
    >
    >Your claim that calling a post stupid is the same as suggesting that I "know" what I'm saying is false -- in essence calling me a liar, is way off base. You wrongly accused me of lying. That is a personal attack. ICNT said your "post" was stupid, not that you were stupid. Please realize the difference between calling a person stupid and calling a post stupid.
    Wow!

    Where did I say you were a liar Norm? I never did. I never even thought of it.
    I know that sometimes your numbers differed from mine but they weren't really "my" numbers.
    They came from reliable tools that you confirmed to me privately, were legit.

    Where did I say that ICNT said I was stupid? He did not say that.
    However his post #6 is disrespectful and it's a shame considering he is a moderator. I said that and I'll say it again.

    Since you mentioned miracles, Norm I would consider deleting post #6 a miracle by the administration.
    Post #6 doesn't hurt me. You should realize that it hurts the image of your entire managing group. ICNT is at fault there.

    However, in his last post he made a serious effort to use the tone expected from a moderator. That's how it should be.

    Blackjack stuff now. I am being accused of generalizing while my approach is about being as specific as possible and being
    non-linear? Go figure!

    By the way it's nice to see "non-linear" appearing a couple of times. I hope to see more of that.
    Problem is that discussions about non-linear tend to irritate some people around here.

    The irony is that some of the most rewarding threads for me were the most aggravating ones.
    That included a few "negative" or "disruptive" comments but eventually some of the best players here showed up and made it so much worthwhile.

    Finally, I am totally stupid when it comes to CV Data but I have more than a little knowledge on the game.

    PS: I hope that kitty cat is OK. I would not want to be accused of animal cruelty.

  7. #20


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    I’m surprised this “bust rate” topic has generated so much discussion. This seems super simple to me. The context is having a play to make which has an index. To determine indexes, we run index sims which run billions of hands and it tells us when to hit or stand based on the TC. However much the dealer busts is already factored into the index, along with many other things. To then try to shoehorn in the bust rate, which is already built into the index, is not going to help in any possible way. It’s totally useless information which can only cause confusion, delay, and bad decisions. Whether to hit or stand is decided by which option has a higher EV at each TC, determined by simulation, or by calculation for masochists.


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  8. #21
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    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    I actually believe the bust rate discussion should go on and on because new counting methods are invented everyday. Think about this large portion of the dealer bust rate of 28%, and this provides a large room for developing better counts. People are not limited to HiLo only.

  9. #22
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    There are ways of developing card counts. They don't involve dealer bust rates or phases of the moon.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  10. #23


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    I actually believe the bust rate discussion should go on and on because new counting methods are invented everyday. Think about this large portion of the dealer bust rate of 28%, and this provides a large room for developing better counts. People are not limited to HiLo only.
    Can you please stop with this? It's really counterproductive.
    Chance favors the prepared mind

  11. #24


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    I actually believe the bust rate discussion should go on and on because new counting methods are invented everyday. Think about this large portion of the dealer bust rate of 28%, and this provides a large room for developing better counts. People are not limited to HiLo only.
    Regardless of the count system, HiLo or otherwise, you decide how to play a hand based on an index for the play, for plays that have indexes that exist. The index from simulation has already factored into it the outcomes where the dealer busts. What additional gain is possible by knowing the bust rate? None. If you think otherwise, provide a concrete example. Under what condition would you use the bust rate information while ignoring the index? If you ignore the index, you are playing less than optimal.

  12. #25
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    I have been promoting this new idea. It is possible to beat the game of blackjack by varying the number of hands to play while betting flat all the way. How to do this?

  13. #26
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    This sounds like a poor variation of Depth Charging. Why would you "promote" an idea without any evidence? At this point, I think you should only post to the disadvantage forum. You will still get responses there.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

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