Mason Malmuth: Doubling Down on Aces???

[bejammin075]

Any place will let you (probably foolishly) double on AA just like you can double on 12 if you really feel like it, unless the game has a rule of only doubling on 10 & 11.


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[DSchles]

Where are these places for doubling down on a pair of aces without splitting them? Are there in Spanish 21 double-double down?

You're asking this question backwards. It is very rare to be allowed to split aces and then, if you receive an ace, to double the A-A. See Wong's Basic Blackjack, pages 110-111, for the proper strategy and a discussion. As bejammin075 just mentioned, you can always double A-A as your original hand (so long as soft doubling is permitted), if you're stupid enough to do it, so I'm not sure what you're thinking.

Don

[21forme]

See Wong's Basic Blackjack, pages 110-111,

But that's in a book...

[DSchles]

But that's in a book...

Oh, right! My bad. Wouldn't want to confuse anyone with the facts.

Don

[aceside]

You're asking this question backwards. It is very rare to be allowed to split aces and then, if you receive an ace, to double the A-A. See Wong's Basic Blackjack, pages 110-111, for the proper strategy and a discussion. As bejammin075 just mentioned, you can always double A-A as your original hand (so long as soft doubling is permitted), if you're stupid enough to do it, so I'm not sure what you're thinking.

Don

My question was lost in my bad wording. I intended to ask: what situations justify the doubling down on a pair of aces?

I actually looked up the book section you mentioned. It was about two casinos in the 1970s, where they allowed doubling down on a pair of ace-ace but did not allow hitting them. That was peculiar.

[Freightman]

My question was lost in my bad wording. I intended to ask: what situations justify the doubling down on a pair of aces?

Possibly 89 surplus, though why not just split like a normal person.

[aceside]

Possibly 89 surplus, though why not just split like a normal person.

It is extremely rare to have 89 surplus to a degree of exceeding 10s. Almost impossible.

[Freightman]

It is extremely rare to have 89 surplus to a degree of exceeding 10s. Almost impossible.

Run Man Run…..oops, wrong joke
Think Man Think

[21forme]

There was a cartoon character, Capt. Peter “Wrong Way” Peachfuzz. Aceside must be his son.

[Freightman]

There was a cartoon character, Capt. Peter “Wrong Way” Peachfuzz. Aceside must be his son.

There was an old old Bob Hope movie - one of the characters was Wrong Way Goldfarb. Still use that expression to this day.

[Midwest Player]

Freightman, I noticed you have "BRING BACK ZEE" at the bottom of your posts. Why don't you email him and ask him to come back? If I remember correctly he emailed you when he was put in the OSN data base. I miss him too.

[Gronbog]

My question was lost in my bad wording. I intended to ask: what situations justify the doubling down on a pair of aces?

Possibly 89 surplus, though why not just split like a normal person.

The EV of doubling on a pair of aces is so much lower than splitting vs all dealer up cards, I can't imagine a surplus of 8 or 9 making up the difference in real world play.

In tournament play, if you need to win two initial bets now, and you have been dealt two aces vs any up card except a T, with typical rules of one card only on each split ace, then you are better off doubling, but not by much. You will succeed more often but only by a margin of 1% or less, depending on the upcard. However, a 1% difference in success rate could be worth knowing depending on the difference in the prize money for finishing one position better.

http://gronbog.org/results/blackjack.../strategy.html

[aceside]

In tournament play, if you need to win two initial bets now, and you have been dealt two aces vs any up card except a T, with typical rules of one card only on each split ace, then you are better off doubling

You explained very well but I still don’t get what you mean by “now.” Forty years ago people did that because the casino rules of the time were peculiar. They didn’t allow players to split ace-ace and didn’t allow hitting them ( after split once) too but allowed players to double down on them. It seems you may publish a book on blackjack tournaments. Ken Smith did some.