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## Spanish 21 Jackpot

I was playing a Spanish 21 game with a \$1 progressive jackpot. I was ignoring the side bets. Then, I got a pair of Aces v. a dealer Ace. And, the dealer had an Ace down! The progressive jackpot was over \$9,000. So, it got me thinking, at some point that \$1 jackpot is +EV. There is a 100% payout for four-of-a-kind (your first two cards match the dealer's first two cards). There are smaller payouts as well. Just thinking about the 100% payout on four-of-a-kind, at what point is that +EV for a \$1 bet?

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Originally Posted by Craigrow
I was playing a Spanish 21 game with a \$1 progressive jackpot. I was ignoring the side bets. Then, I got a pair of Aces v. a dealer Ace. And, the dealer had an Ace down! The progressive jackpot was over \$9,000. So, it got me thinking, at some point that \$1 jackpot is +EV. There is a 100% payout for four-of-a-kind (your first two cards match the dealer's first two cards). There are smaller payouts as well. Just thinking about the 100% payout on four-of-a-kind, at what point is that +EV for a \$1 bet?
I was playing a BJ with the \$5 progressive jackpot. You get the jackpot when your two cards and dealer's upcard are all seven and the same suit. The next best thing is three cards all seven and the same color. Normally I play BJ with Zen main count, ace side count and 8/9 side count. But when I play this game, I replace the ace count with seven count. When remaining seven cards are very rich, I play the \$5 side bet. One day on my first side bet that day, I got all three sevens of the same color. The jackpot is \$83,000. So my bet paid me \$8,300 (actually a little over \$6,000 after tax). Since I did not play this side bet for 2 hours and hit it on my first bet, the dealer said I am the luckiest person he ever seen. I really want to tell him it is all skills. Luck has nothing to do with it.

Once the jackpot was \$180,000, the count almost reached my threshold to play but a little shy, I hesitated and decided to play on the next hand. And I hit three seven of the same rank. If I am a truly lucky person, I would have won that \$180,000 jackpot. (Jackpot grew that big because no one has hit it for more than one year. It never happened again.)

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Originally Posted by BJGenius007
ace side count and 8/9 side count.
Well, why stop there? If you can side count Aces, 8's, and 9's on top of the normal counting, you mind well just side count the other few values and play like a perfect computer.

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Originally Posted by BJGenius007
...Once the jackpot was \$180,000, the count almost reached my threshold to play but a little shy, I hesitated and decided to play on the next hand. And I hit three seven of the same rank. If I am a truly lucky person, I would have won that \$180,000 jackpot....
I happen to be familiar with the 7s side bet and believe the b/e point to be around \$113k

...sure enough checking the WoO webisite, the version you describe (table #1, ver #2) has a b/e point of \$112k

...now granted counting 7s must also be considered, of which you say was 'close' to threshold, but also considering that the jackpot was 50% greater than the b/e point.....I think you 'missed your shot' on that one, buddy

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Originally Posted by UncleChoo
Well, why stop there? If you can side count Aces, 8's, and 9's on top of the normal counting, you mind well just side count the other few values and play like a perfect computer.
First, 8/9 is counted as a combo, not separately. My goal is to cover every rank of the cards so I can insurance perfectly. Of course, it changes how I play based on ace and midcard side count.

Maintaining three counts in the head is easier than most people realize. I used toes to count midcards and A-X to count aces.

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There are 48 midcards of 8s and 9s in a six deck shoe, but there are only ten toes. How do you mark such a large number? The zen count itself is already beyond the capability of most people, I guess. What is your trick? And Tarzan’s?

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INS is a very UNimportant index in Sp21.

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Originally Posted by aceside
There are 48 midcards of 8s and 9s in a six deck shoe, but there are only ten toes. How do you mark such a large number? The zen count itself is already beyond the capability of most people, I guess. What is your trick? And Tarzan’s?
I order a Coke or Spirit when I sat down. 8/9 side count depends on the straw position and which toe touches the ground with force (start from the rightest to the leftest) and I drink a little bit and move the straw to the next direction (or casually touch the straw) after all ten toes touches ground once. It will become natural when you see an eight or nine and immediately move to the next toe. I also count the aces by thinking an object: apple, banana, chicken, duck, egg, fish, goose, ham, ice, juice, kiwi, lemon, mango, nectarine, orange, papaya, queen, rum, saki, tequila, utopia, vodka, wine and XO. Queen and utopia are cocktails. In the end, only the main Zen count uses numbers.

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Originally Posted by aceside
There are 48 midcards of 8s and 9s in a six deck shoe, but there are only ten toes. How do you mark such a large number? The zen count itself is already beyond the capability of most people, I guess. What is your trick? And Tarzan’s?
I'm doing an ace side count with my normal. I'm not using Zen but an almost identical count system. Over time and with lots of practice, you learn to maintain both counts. I count my aces upwards rather than backward. Not sure why authors mostly suggest counting Aces backward. So if my normal count is say +7 and if I saw 3 Aces, mentally I'm thinking of two columns +7 3. It is easier to count aces forward rather than backward because all you have to do is look at the discard tray and you can easily see if poor or rich aces. Just my thoughts on the matter.

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Originally Posted by BJGenius007
I order a Coke or Spirit when I sat down. 8/9 side count depends on the straw position and which toe touches the ground with force (start from the rightest to the leftest) and I drink a little bit and move the straw to the next direction (or casually touch the straw) after all ten toes touches ground once. It will become natural when you see an eight or nine and immediately move to the next toe. I also count the aces by thinking an object: apple, banana, chicken, duck, egg, fish, goose, ham, ice, juice, kiwi, lemon, mango, orange, papaya, queen, rum, saki, tequila, utopia, vodka, wine and XO. Queen and utopia are cocktails. In the end, only the main Zen count uses numbers.
I must say this is quite creative BJGenius007

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