See the top rated post in this thread. Click here

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 38

Thread: On Average How Many Blackjack Hands Have to be Played to Win 5 in a Row

  1. #1


    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

    On Average How Many Blackjack Hands Have to be Played to Win 5 in a Row

    Pushes don't break the streak. They are just ignored.

    Online casino is offering 10 times $25 bet (250 free credits) for getting a 5 hand win streak in a day. Does this sound like a positive expected value promotion?

  2. #2
    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    1,809


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    If you win or push roughly 54% of the time then it's (0.54^5) to give percent chance of it happening. If the push doesn't advance the steak then the odds are longer. Either way 10-1 payoff ain't close to true odds of a 5 win streak. If pushes are ignored you win roughly 43% of the time so the odds are far longer.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by bigplayer; 11-19-2021 at 01:31 AM.

  3. #3


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    We calculated this probability earlier. Let me quote 21forme:
    As pushes don't count, you are left with 91.2& of hands. Within that, the ratio of wins to losses is 47.5% to 52.5%.”

    So, the probability of winning 5 hands in a row is
    0.475^5=2.418%, that is, once in every 41 hands of continuously playing.

    If the table minimum is $10, you expect to lose 41x10x0.005=$2.05 before you get a free bet of 10x$25. This sounds too sweet to be true?
    Last edited by aceside; 11-19-2021 at 10:02 AM.

  4. #4


    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Aceside, forum etiquette calls for using the quote button (or highlighting a section of a post and then clicking quote), so the source post can be verified.

    I considered responding to MWP's question, but as he doesn't respond to my follow-up questions, I decided not to help him any longer with his endless barrage of "is this promo beatable?" posts.

    If he bothered to do any of his own research (teach a man to fish...), he could have easily found the answer in the BJ sidebet section of WoO.

  5. #5


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    No one is calculating this correctly. Streak probabilities are very complex to calculate. Just saying 0.475^5 gives you only the probability of playing five hands and winning them all. It has nothing to do with playing x number of hands and wondering if a winning streak of, say, 5 will occur.

    Some examples: 50 hands: 47.6% probability
    100 hands: 74.5%
    200 hands: 95.3%
    300 or more hands: virtual certainty

    So, giving you $250 in free bets seems impossible to me. It's impossible to play more than a couple of hours without winning five in a row--unless, of course, you're cheated. And, since it's online, I'd say the chances of that are extremely high.

    Don

  6. #6


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    No one is calculating this correctly. Streak probabilities are very complex to calculate. Just saying 0.475^5 gives you only the probability of playing five hands and winning them all.
    Don
    I have been thinking about this part too. The 0.475^5 gives you the probability of winning/pushing five hands in a row. Is this equivalent to winning exactly five hands, excluding pushes? Mathematicians needed.

  7. #7


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    No one is calculating this correctly. Streak probabilities are very complex to calculate. Just saying 0.475^5 gives you only the probability of playing five hands and winning them all. It has nothing to do with playing x number of hands and wondering if a winning streak of, say, 5 will occur.

    Some examples: 50 hands: 47.6% probability
    100 hands: 74.5%
    200 hands: 95.3%
    300 or more hands: virtual certainty

    So, giving you $250 in free bets seems impossible to me. It's impossible to play more than a couple of hours without winning five in a row--unless, of course, you're cheated. And, since it's online, I'd say the chances of that are extremely high.

    Don
    This indeed sounds very complicated. Often when the question is "how is the probability of something to happen at least one time in n trials", it is easier to compute the contrary (probability of this not to happen) and subtract it from 100%. But the probability of no streak of 5 consecutive wins in e.g. 50 trials is not easy to calculate either.

  8. #8


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    I have been thinking about this part too. The 0.475^5 gives you the probability of winning/pushing five hands in a row. Is this equivalent to winning exactly five hands, excluding pushes? Mathematicians needed.
    Just forget about the pushes. You don't win 47.5% of hands. The higher number accounts for the pushes. It's for resolved hands.

  9. #9


    Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    Pushes don't break the streak. They are just ignored.

    Online casino is offering 10 times $25 bet (250 free credits) for getting a 5 hand win streak in a day. Does this sound like a positive expected value promotion?

    Here is how to find rounds required before a 3 hand winning streak(instead of 5 hand winning streak).

    Suppose Rn = Rounds required after you get n winning streak. p= win probability, q = loss probability and r = tie probability and z = 1- r

    Therefore Rn = p * Rn+1 + q * R0 + r * Rn + 1

    A) After you get a 3 hand winning streak, rounds required to play further is zero, so R3 = 0 -----------Eq1

    B)
    R2 = p * R3 + q * R0 + r * R2 + 1
    (1-r)R2 = p * R3 + q * R0 + 1
    z*R2 = p * R3 + q * R0 + 1
    z*R2 = q * R0 + 1-----------Eq2


    C)
    R1 = p * R2 + q * R0 + r * R1 + 1
    (1-r)R1 = p * R2 + q * R0 + 1
    z*R1 = p * R2 + q * R0 + 1-----------Eq3


    D)
    R0 = p * R1 + q * R0 + r * R0 + 1
    (1- q - r)R0 = p * R1 + 1
    p*R0 = p * R1 + 1-----------Eq4

    From Eq2, Eq3 and Eq4, you can simplify it to :-

    R0 = (p^2 + pz + z^2)/(pz^2 - p^2q - pqz)

    Suppose p = 0.4332, q = 0.4788, r = 0.088, z = 1 - r = 0.912

    R0 = (p^2 + pz + z^2)/(pz^2 - p^2q - pqz) = 17.39934

    Average rounds required before you get a 3 hand winning streak is 17.39934. If pushes break streak(p=0.4332, q = 0.5668, r = 0, z=1), average rounds required is 19.93796.


    Please note that for a specific game where, p = q = 0.5, r = 0, (coin flipping), Average flips required before you get a 3 winning streak is exactly 14 !


    So you can use the same approach to find rounds required before get a 5 hand winning streak. This is a tedious process !

    updated :-

    Just an estimate for your actual case, average rounds required before you get a 5 hand winning streak(pushes don't break the streak) is 84, so your net profit = 250 - 84 * 25 *0.005 = 239.5.
    Last edited by James989; 11-20-2021 at 08:32 AM.

  10. #10


    0 out of 1 members found this post helpful. Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No
    Quote Originally Posted by James989 View Post
    Please note that for a specific game where, p = q = 0.5, r = 0, (coin flipping), Average flips required before you get a 3 winning streak is exactly 14 !
    Let me verify the coin flipping case first. The probability of getting 3 heads in a row is 0.5^3=0.125, that is once in every 1/0.125=8 sets of 3-flips. In theory, if we flip 24 times, we would almost certainly have a 3-head streak.
    Last edited by aceside; 11-20-2021 at 02:07 PM. Reason: I revised the unit here and number here.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Number of hands played
    By DannyOcean in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: 08-20-2019, 12:12 PM
  2. Do total hands played mean ALL played to figure house edge?
    By Lucoco in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 06-28-2015, 10:49 AM
  3. Wonging, Hands played / percentage hands played per hour?
    By zolas in forum General Blackjack Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-27-2013, 09:04 AM
  4. M: Win Rate / # of Hands Played
    By M in forum Main Forum
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 08-28-2002, 05:54 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

About Blackjack: The Forum

BJTF is an advantage player site based on the principles of comity. That is, civil and considerate behavior for the mutual benefit of all involved. The goal of advantage play is the legal extraction of funds from gaming establishments by gaining a mathematic advantage and developing the skills required to use that advantage. To maximize our success, it is important to understand that we are all on the same side. Personal conflicts simply get in the way of our goals.