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Thread: When is it worth upgrading to Halves?

  1. #1


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    When is it worth upgrading to Halves?

    I count mostly as a hobby with the local casinos. I currently use Hi-Lo and use a $10 unit size and a 1-10 spread. Running it through CVData, it seems like with the games they have around me, Halves would increase my average hourly winnings (if played perfectly) by about %7. At a $10 unit size this is mostly negligible, about a $1 increase hourly. Definitely not worth the time it would take to learn a level 3 count. Changing the unit size to $25 changes the hourly increase to roughly $3.50. Since I play as a hobby, maybe about 20-30 hours a week, this would give me about an average extra $3-5k a year. I'm still not sure if it would be worth it at that point. What do you guys think? At what point would you think it would be worth to switch?

    (For information, basically every table here is 6D, DAS, RSA, ~75% pen, H17).
    Casual counter and number crunching enthusiast.

  2. #2


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    Highly recommend KO-full ,REKO-full, so you don't need to convert running count to true count. You can find them in CVDATA too.

  3. #3


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    Quote Originally Posted by JackO View Post
    Highly recommend KO-full ,REKO-full, so you don't need to convert running count to true count. You can find them in CVDATA too.
    I personally don't have trouble with converting to TC, I can use Hi-Lo fairly proficiently now using the Sweet 16 index. The only problem would be going from a level 1 to a level 3 counting strategy, making the actual RC harder to keep. KO and REKO are both just inferior to even regular Hi-Lo when it comes to 6D games, so no reason for me to switch.
    Casual counter and number crunching enthusiast.

  4. #4


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    Quote Originally Posted by AerialSnack View Post
    I count mostly as a hobby with the local casinos. I currently use Hi-Lo and use a $10 unit size and a 1-10 spread. Running it through CVData, it seems like with the games they have around me, Halves would increase my average hourly winnings (if played perfectly) by about %7. At a $10 unit size this is mostly negligible, about a $1 increase hourly. Definitely not worth the time it would take to learn a level 3 count. Changing the unit size to $25 changes the hourly increase to roughly $3.50. Since I play as a hobby, maybe about 20-30 hours a week, this would give me about an average extra $3-5k a year. I'm still not sure if it would be worth it at that point. What do you guys think? At what point would you think it would be worth to switch?

    (For information, basically every table here is 6D, DAS, RSA, ~75% pen, H17).
    You've done the analysis correctly. But how would you propose that anyone here tell you whether an extra $3k-$5k a year is worth it to you? No one but you can make that determination.

    Don

  5. #5


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    You've done the analysis correctly. But how would you propose that anyone here tell you whether an extra $3k-$5k a year is worth it to you? No one but you can make that determination.

    Don
    I need a lesson in common sense it seems. Definitely an obvious answer! I'll play around with the idea if I ever go up to $50 units.

  6. #6


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    I need a lesson in common sense it seems. Definitely an obvious answer!
    Not necessarily obvious. I converted to halves when I was still red chipping. Did you not say you were playing 20-30 hours a week.

    I'll play around with the idea if I ever go up to $50 units.
    Just think if you start now - you’ll have better weapons at $25 units.

  7. #7


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    Apparently not worth the time at all.

    This much brain power and the hourly Rate is much worse than Uber driver.

    Also you won't get much comps.

    Quote Originally Posted by AerialSnack View Post
    I count mostly as a hobby with the local casinos. I currently use Hi-Lo and use a $10 unit size and a 1-10 spread. Running it through CVData, it seems like with the games they have around me, Halves would increase my average hourly winnings (if played perfectly) by about %7. At a $10 unit size this is mostly negligible, about a $1 increase hourly. Definitely not worth the time it would take to learn a level 3 count. Changing the unit size to $25 changes the hourly increase to roughly $3.50. Since I play as a hobby, maybe about 20-30 hours a week, this would give me about an average extra $3-5k a year. I'm still not sure if it would be worth it at that point. What do you guys think? At what point would you think it would be worth to switch?

    (For information, basically every table here is 6D, DAS, RSA, ~75% pen, H17).

  8. #8


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    Did you just use the canned sims to compare the results? A 7% increase in EV going from level 1 to level 3 seems low. I'm highly dubious of the canned sims because when I simmed my own indices and optimized my betting for UBZ11, it performed way better than the canned UBZ11. I think the same betting structure is used in the canned sims for level 1, 2, and 3 counts, which is incorrect. Anyways, when I upgraded from Kiss 3 (level 1) to UBZ11 (level 2), I saw a 33% increase ($6) in EV playing red chips.

    I say go for it, assuming you'd actually make more than $1 per hour extra.

  9. #9


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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepsnow View Post
    Did you just use the canned sims to compare the results? A 7% increase in EV going from level 1 to level 3 seems low. I'm highly dubious of the canned sims because when I simmed my own indices and optimized my betting for UBZ11, it performed way better than the canned UBZ11. I think the same betting structure is used in the canned sims for level 1, 2, and 3 counts, which is incorrect. Anyways, when I upgraded from Kiss 3 (level 1) to UBZ11 (level 2), I saw a 33% increase ($6) in EV playing red chips.

    I say go for it, assuming you'd actually make more than $1 per hour extra.
    See BJA3, pp. 171-172. Your personal results are utterly meaningless.

    Don

  10. #10


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    Quote Originally Posted by Deepsnow View Post
    Did you just use the canned sims to compare the results? A 7% increase in EV going from level 1 to level 3 seems low. I'm highly dubious of the canned sims because when I simmed my own indices and optimized my betting for UBZ11, it performed way better than the canned UBZ11. I think the same betting structure is used in the canned sims for level 1, 2, and 3 counts, which is incorrect. Anyways, when I upgraded from Kiss 3 (level 1) to UBZ11 (level 2), I saw a 33% increase ($6) in EV playing red chips.

    I say go for it, assuming you'd actually make more than $1 per hour extra.
    I created my own indexes using CVData for both Hi-Lo and Halves using the rules of the casinos in my area. I'm a little confused about you bringing up betting structures, as they are on completely different pages and use completely different files. I did however use the same betting strategy for both, but the reasoning is because both playing strategies are very similar in form, and that the betting strategy that I have is what I've found works best for me here.

    Honestly, Hi-Lo is pretty damn efficient when it comes to 6D shoes. The biggest advantage I think I found with Halves is the reduced variance. Seems to be about 13% less. Which, that honestly might be worth switching for with what I want to do in the future.
    Casual counter and number crunching enthusiast.

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