# Thread: casinos who tax winnings on blackjack

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## casinos who tax winnings on blackjack

I am encountering casinos outside of USA who levy a tax on winnings when you cash in the chips. Can anyone on this forum tell me how to calculate (or sim) the optimum number of bets to make before cashing in order to reduce the effect of the tax? Taxes I've encountered vary from 1% to 5%.

For discretion, please email me at [email protected]

Very much appreciated..many thanks...2Bornot2B

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Originally Posted by 2Bornot2B
I am encountering casinos outside of USA who levy a tax on winnings when you cash in the chips. Can anyone on this forum tell me how to calculate (or sim) the optimum number of bets to make before cashing in order to reduce the effect of the tax? Taxes I've encountered vary from 1% to 5%.

For discretion, please email me at [email protected]

Very much appreciated..many thanks...2Bornot2B
2Bornot2B,

If your goal is tax minimization, then here's a simple answer: bet nothing and the tax will be zero.

On the other hand, if your goal is EV maximization, then you need to consider these two factors:

1. Is the tax imposed only on "winnings", or on cash out? For example, if you buy in for \$100 and later cash out for \$100, are you taxed?

2. Are you also faced with currency exchange costs? These costs are more damaging than the straight tax, because with currency exchange costs you get charged not just on your cash outs but also on your buy ins.

If the answer to #1 is "cash out" or the answer to #2 is "yes", then you will want to minimize your buy ins.

In general, though, the EV-maximizing answer will be the same as for a "regular" game: as long as you have an edge, keep playing.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

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Originally Posted by Dog Hand
2Bornot2B,

If your goal is tax minimization, then here's a simple answer: bet nothing and the tax will be zero.

On the other hand, if your goal is EV maximization, then you need to consider these two factors:

1. Is the tax imposed only on "winnings", or on cash out? For example, if you buy in for \$100 and later cash out for \$100, are you taxed?

2. Are you also faced with currency exchange costs? These costs are more damaging than the straight tax, because with currency exchange costs you get charged not just on your cash outs but also on your buy ins.

If the answer to #1 is "cash out" or the answer to #2 is "yes", then you will want to minimize your buy ins.

In general, though, the EV-maximizing answer will be the same as for a "regular" game: as long as you have an edge, keep playing.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

Thanks Dog Hand...but let me clarify with an example...btw, tax is only on winnings, not buy-in plus winnings..example:

day 1...net loss 1000
day 2...net win 1000
Tax payable when I cash in after 2 days is nil, because 2-day play was level, but if I cash in after each day's play then I will have to pay tax on the 2nd day's play because I have won 1000.

So, what I need to know is what are the optimum number of sessions or days or bets I should make before cashing in... in order to maimize my EV by minimizing my tax liabilities...for example I could hold my chips for 6 months if necessary. This is what the famous Czech team did in Macao many years ago, but these days casinos would not permit such a move.

I have a feeling that the easiest way to obtain the info I need is by simming...but that is way above my math capabilities!

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Originally Posted by 2Bornot2B
<snip>day 1...net loss 1000
day 2...net win 1000
Tax payable when I cash in after 2 days is nil, because 2-day play was level, but if I cash in after each day's play then I will have to pay tax on the 2nd day's play because I have won 1000.<snip>
2Bornot2B,

That's you answer in a nutshell: never cash out until you're ready to leave for a long enough time that you'll lose "credit" for all your buy ins. Does the casino keep track of your buy ins for a year, a month, a week, or only on consecutive days? Once you know this, you'll know how long your "session" should be.

As your example shows, cashing out "early" leads to increased tax liability.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand

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This is weird....
Can you tell us which country (casino) is so good on tracking player's bet that they are always "spot on" on your wins and losses ?
Casinos are FULL of looser, give one half the price of the taxes so he can cash out your chips and still remain with no taxable profit.

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Originally Posted by Dog Hand
2Bornot2B,

That's you answer in a nutshell: never cash out until you're ready to leave for a long enough time that you'll lose "credit" for all your buy ins. Does the casino keep track of your buy ins for a year, a month, a week, or only on consecutive days? Once you know this, you'll know how long your "session" should be.

As your example shows, cashing out "early" leads to increased tax liability.

Hope this helps!

Dog Hand
The casino tracks winnings on all of my play so they know on any given day what is my accumulated win. My plan is to hold the chips and play with the chips...not cash...every day until I leave (as did the Czech team). But I need to know the optimum length of time (or bets) to hold the chips before cashing in. Would it be if and only if I have achieved total win expectation for that number of bets?

In one particular casino the tax is 4% of winnings on any winning session (day), but I know of other casinos levying taxes at 1-5%.

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Originally Posted by G Man
This is weird....
Can you tell us which country (casino) is so good on tracking player's bet that they are always "spot on" on your wins and losses ?
Casinos are FULL of looser, give one half the price of the taxes so he can cash out your chips and still remain with no taxable profit.
Belarus casinos are a case in point, taxing winnings at 4%...but there are other casinos around the world who also tax, but at varying rates.
I don't understand your second sentence,"Casinos are FULL of looser...." Could you please clarify?

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By full of losers I mean it shouldn’t be difficult to give you chips to someone showing a loss record and cash them with no taxation since he’s not winning.

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It's been a number of years since I played these places, and I can't recall which one it was, but Panama and/or Curaçao had an onerous tax, too.

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Originally Posted by 2Bornot2B
My plan is to hold the chips and play with the chips...not cash...every day until I leave (as did the Czech team). But I need to know the optimum length of time (or bets) to hold the chips before cashing in
Here is my logic. I'm interested in what others think about this. What you want to avoid is cashing in a loss after cashing in a win. You will end up taxed on money you actually lost or taxed twice on that money if you later make a comeback.

Therefore the optimal time to cash is at the end of your trip which would eliminate that possibility. You will be taxed once and only on the amount you actually won.

The next best interval is after you reach each new high point. This eliminates the possibility of being taxed twice and will limit the possibility of being taxed on money lost to the amount lost after your final high point. Note that your initial high point is zero. If you hit a new high for a significant amount close to the end of your trip, you might want to consider ending your play. The last thing you want with this strategy is to end up significantly down from your final high point.

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