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Thread: Can we talk about playing two hands? (50% of max)

  1. #14


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    Quote Originally Posted by 21forme View Post
    See post #7.
    Yes, I saw it. Just being a little more specific and fleshing out the answer a bit.

    Don

  2. #15


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    Can you redo the comparison by setting the round/hour=50 when playing two hands?
    That isn't the right way to do it. When you play alone, there are two TOTAL hands, yours and the dealer's. When you play two hands alone, there are three total hands. So, the correct fraction is two-thirds, not one-half. Also, playing alone, you surely get more than 100 rounds per hour; it's at least double that. So that needs to be adjusted as well.

    Don

  3. #16


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    Yes, I saw it. Just being a little more specific and fleshing out the answer a bit.
    I was tempted to write, "see post #7 on page 1" in DonS' inimitable style

    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    That isn't the right way to do it.
    Big surprise, considering the source.

  4. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    That isn't the right way to do it.

    Don
    Let me specify what I want the OP to do. Two comparisons as below:

    #1. When playing two hands, set round/hour=50, and the bet spread on each hand as $25, $50…… until $300, exactly same as that in one-hand playing. This comparison does not consider the covariance between two simultaneous hands.

    #2. when playing two hands, set round/hour=100, and the bet spread on each hand as $16.7, $33.3…… until $200. Now the spread ratio is the same 12 but the base amount is reduced to 2/3 of the original. This comparison considers the covariance between two simultaneous hands.

    I really hope to see the results.

  5. #18
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    You are comparing two nonoptimal strategies Not much point.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  6. #19


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    Quote Originally Posted by DSchles View Post
    No one has really answered you directly. Your problem is that you didn't change the rounds per hour in the second sim. You're assuming 100 rounds per hour playing alone and then the same 100 rounds playing two hands, which simply isn't possible. You can't play two hands just as fast as you play one! If you play two hands alone at the table, with a top bet of 6 units on each one, it is undeniably true that you will win LESS per hour than if you bet one hand of 12. People have argued that you may win more than two-thirds of the one-hand amount, betting this way, but you will never win 100% of that amount.

    When you bet optimally (roughly 50% more on the two hands combined), and you use 1.5 times as many cards per round, playing alone, there is no real gain to be achieved. Once you add more players to the table and you bet two hands optimally, you will win more per hour than if you play only one hand.

    All of this is covered in BJA3, pp. 24-26.

    Don
    I was worried I wasn’t going to get answers to my questions and you answered nearly all of them, thanks Don

    I’ll definitely look into BJA3 then, that’s one I haven’t read and sounds like it has what I’m looking for

  7. #20


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    Quote Originally Posted by aceside View Post
    Let me specify what I want the OP to do. Two comparisons as below:

    #1. When playing two hands, set round/hour=50, and the bet spread on each hand as $25, $50…… until $300, exactly same as that in one-hand playing. This comparison does not consider the covariance between two simultaneous hands.

    #2. when playing two hands, set round/hour=100, and the bet spread on each hand as $16.7, $33.3…… until $200. Now the spread ratio is the same 12 but the base amount is reduced to 2/3 of the original. This comparison considers the covariance between two simultaneous hands.

    I really hope to see the results.
    I think I understand what Norm is saying now in regards to backcounting with the spread param but I think it actually can be done if you take into account how the spreads occur and when you want to start playing two hands. Might not be worth it though if it’s sub optimal anyway, I can check later when I get home.

    Some things that may worth considering are the Win/Rnd, ROR, and N0 which are (mostly/entirely?) unaffected by changes in how many hands are played per hour.

    I’m going to read more into BJA3 mentioned by Don and play with some scenarios with a better understanding afterwards
    Last edited by ajporrasm; 09-20-2021 at 05:43 PM.

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